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NorwegianDude
You don't say where you are located, but unless you are in one of the few places where Dell doesn't offer on-site next business day support then XPS 13 is a great laptop.
Their support is amazing: "We're not sure what is causing it, but we'll send someone to replace the whole motherboard tomorrow." "OH, your currently halfway across the world on a island? No problem, we'll be there tomorrow"
I really don't understand how it's done. Clearly they must have parts distributed ahead of time.
I'm just amazed that it's included in the price considering the cost of sending a technician out to a customer. The fact that even here on HN a lot of people think Apple's support is good suggests that Dell might be able to save a ton of money by lowering their support level, so I don't really get why they offer it.
blurrybird
You should see their 4 hour 24x7 ProSupport option.
We managed to bundle it in with a 1600-device order one year and I was (un)fortunate enough to get to experience it.
“So if I understand correctly, You’ve just spilt a red bull on your work laptop at a LAN party you’re facilitating just now, and it’s 1AM, and you need your laptop tomorrow morning for bump out…?
Ok does 3:30am work for you?”
djbusby
In 2000 I spilled grape juice on my Dell Inspiron laptop, while 1000 miles from home. They were out fixing it the next day.
It's not a new play for Dell.
hu3
In 2001 I fried a Dell desktop motherboard and processor while toying with overclocking.
They flown someone with brand new parts to my home, more than a 1000km away, and replaced it all no question asked.
It's surreal.
readingnews
I really do not understand the love the XPS 13 gets. We have several here at the office. We will never get them again. They break, the keyboard is not pleasant, the machine is not really fast, two handed openings are painful when you come from a different brand, charging it takes forever, we just leave them plugged in, switching wireless to wired in linux (several distros) takes too long, did I mention the keyboard makes me want to vomit?... I think my office neighbors has broken at least 7 times. I stopped using mine as I liked my ancient MBP better, and I really do not like apple that much.
Although I do not have an alternative that I have used, I know colleagues who love their new (last three or four years old) Lenovos, like the X series.
horsawlarway
I have 2 in the XPS line - a relatively old 15 inch and a new(ish) 13 inch.
They're perfectly fine machines.
Dell officially supports linux on them (admittedly, only Ubuntu), you can get 32gb of RAM, and they perform just as well as any other intel based laptop (which is to say - I wish they sucked less power, but they're fine on the performance scale).
I'm... not a clean person with my machines, and I've never noticed any issues with the keyboards.
I have zero issues swapping wireless to wired (Arch linux) - it's basically instant for me, but I don't actually know how you're testing that, since none of the newer 13 models include an ethernet port (I use an adapter). Have you considered that you have a bad usb-ethernet adapter? Every one I've used is fine. Alternatively - are you sure you're not thinking of the Latitude line? Those are very different machines, which I also avoid.
Basically - I'd take an XPS every time over anything Lenovo puts out. I don't even really care about the hardware, I just think Lenovo can't be trusted a god damn inch. Chinese company selling computers with rootkits/MITM pre-installed. It was a sad day when IBM sold their personal computing line to them. I know a lot of folks still like the Thinkpads - but it's not worth it, IMO.
mlmonge
I've had an eye on the Huawei Matebook X Pro on Swappa. My other eye is on the XPS, new from Amazon. The latter is certainly more expensive and yet, doesn't impress me as much as the Matebook. But as we all know, Huawei is not trusted much here lately in the U.S. Is this in fact another Chinese company that's best we avoid? I was considering starting an Ask HN just for Huawei given not much has been posted here on this topic for a couple of years now.
rowanG077
I mean the level of complaint being "Opening the lid is kinda hard" shows it must be a pretty good laptop. It's like complaining that the waiter asked one time too many if everything was satisfactory at a high-end restaurant.
packetlost
Idk, I'm on my 3rd XPS and I've had none of these problems. Even the keyboard I consider to be above average. I will agree that opening the lid can bit a bit difficult/awkward, but it's hardly a problem.
asdfqwertzxcv
Gotta agree. Also on #3 and all have been absolutely stellar, even after popping the lid on all of them to do some upgrades.
tchaffee
My last Dell XPS sucked and the support sucked. I bought a top of the line XPS and within less than a year the battery was swollen. Same exact battery model they were still replacing for free on the previous laptop model, but when I called support I was out of luck. So I bought a new battery. And then within a few more months I started getting common the sticky key problem with several keys on my keyboard requiring a lot of pressure to work. Their build quality has gone way down. Strong avoid.
I switched to a gaming laptop and am still comparing brands before I decide who to recommend, but after a year I'm still really happy with the performance and build quality of my current one. Most seem built to take a beating. Which makes sense.
klik99
Was your last Dell recent? I remember having horrible experiences with Dell support so I wouldn't buy them. But about 1.5 years ago I saw a great deal on a refurbished beefy machine I needed - and found their support was amazing when it needed some parts replaced. My guess is they did a 180 on support because they had a bad reputation. YMMV because I still hear bad experiences - they partner with local support so it may depend on the quality of folks in your area.
eastbound
Dell has no proven track of good support. You may say it’s an entirely different company since [too short to measure accurately] and you would just look like the rest of their campaign managers.
If they truely have changed, they would have made a fuss about it, wouldn’t have they.
tinus_hn
It just depends on what kind of support you order. Got the basic support? You get to listen to outsourced tech support telling you you have to reinstall Windows first. Got the premium support? They’ll typically replace the motherboard with everything on it the next day.
weberer
Just make sure the model you're getting supports S3 sleep mode (AKA real sleep mode) before hand. A lot of the newer Dells don't. Its something the OEM needs to support in the BIOS, so you can't just fix it by installing a new distro.
ajvs
Since at least the 2019 model Dell XPS 13s no longer have S3 sleep mode and instead uses Microsoft's "Modern Standby" (s0ix)[1], which consumes tons of power whilst in "sleep" in order to have slightly quicker wake times.
[1] https://www.dell.com/community/XPS/XPS-15-9570-BIOS-1-3-0-sl...
thombles
s0ix is fine so long as it actually activates. The problem is that in some default configurations it doesn't and you end up using a poorer sleep. On my 9305 it was a matter of changing a storage setting in the BIOS and afterwards it was perfectly fine. (If you'll pardon linking my own blog, I wrote about this particular issue a little while ago: https://thomask.sdf.org/blog/2021/08/15/debian-11-bullseye-o...)
alpaca128
> in order to have slightly quicker wake times.
Unless it pulled a breaking Windows update at night so the laptop won't boot anymore the next morning.
criddell
I found this with my ThinkPad. If I don't remember to completely power it down, I'll pull it out of my bag and it will be hot.
treffer
As far as I understand that's an Intel thing. They deprecated it and it is not allowed for high security devices.... (I thibk HS3 profiles?)
I have one of those DELLs for work. Don't.
nrjames
My daughter just received a school laptop that drains battery very fast when sleeping. What exactly should I look for in the BIOS to set it to real sleep mode?
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fennecfoxy
Even if it does you still can't manually control the fan. Ahahaha, Dell, what a fucking joke.
chris11
I think my employers IT policies have a lot to do with it, but fans on my laptop do spin up in the middle of the night. It can be annoying.
mort96
I've had a couple XPS laptops over the years, one XPS 13 and one XPS 15. Both have had issues with their trackpads getting wonky. They would just increasingly ignore inputs and react incorrectly to my finger. The XPS 15 (the 2-in-1 model) would also sometimes just not go to sleep and cook itself in my bag, and its keyboard has keys which just break over time under normal use, and that's not covered under warranty. You can't just replace the keyboard, you have to pay out of pocket to replace the whole top case of the laptop.
Your experience might differ, but I'm not getting a Dell again.
ClumsyPilot
> The XPS 15 (the 2-in-1 model) would also sometimes just not go to sleep and cook itself in my bag
happened to my XPS 15, Thats because they remives normal sleep mode and replaced it with always on standby. had to switch ti hybernation
alkonaut
The keyboard/trackpad giving up is the battery swelling. And it happens to nearly all of them I think. At least if they run hot.
I had one plugged in 24/7 for 3 years and it’s usually a few months until the battery swells until the keyboard stops working. I had the battery replaced three times.
If only they allowed running without battery I’d get one again. Or if they started testing their machines properly. Great support, sloppy thermal design and testing by Dell.
hertzrat
That’s due to swelling batteries, which is apparently common in the xps line
semi-extrinsic
It's also an issue on HPs similar x360 line. And it is a consequence of optimizing for the arbitrary metric "slimness" at the expense of cooling, while stuffing in high-TDP CPUs. Who on earth has a bag or backpack where 15 mm vs 21 mm thickness means the laptop won't fit?
Get something with a bit of thickness to it, like the Latitude 5530 (which Dell will also sell with Ubuntu) and stick to the low-TDP CPU versions.
If your dev work is CPU-intensive you should be doing it on a workstation or server anyways. A machine where your cooling solution can dissipate 3-400W without batting an eyelid is going to beat the crap out of a "high-end" 45W TDP laptop.
When you're on the road, just use SSH with tmux or RDP or whatever you prefer. At your desk, set up a monitor and a workstation for the serious work and keep the laptop on the side for meetings, emails etc. A USB switch for the mouse and keyboard works well and is like $30.
thesuitonym
The company I work for used to buy XPS's for upper management and C-levels. We stopped because every single one of them had their batteries bulge so bad they popped out the keyboards and trackpads. At first we thought it was a problem of traveling with them in standby, but then it started happening on users' desks. Other Dell laptops don't have such a problem, it has to be something with the XPS design.
packetlost
It happened fairly often to the 2015-2016ish era XPSs. Afaik they fixed whatever issue was causing it
thesuitonym
That's about the time we stopped buying them. Maybe as late as 2018, but I'm not 100% certain on that.
kurupt213
Any lithium-ion battery can go spicy. The pouch form-factor common to the thin profile laptops that don’t have easily removed batteries can really swell.
It’s the same phenomenon that warps iPhones
650REDHAIR
My XPS15 has been a paperweight for 2 years now.
The original Dell battery swelled up and was replaced under warranty. The replacement battery lasted a couple of months and was so swollen it broke my keyboard and trackpad.
Dell support refused to fix it and couldn't provide me with a battery because they were completely out.
I tried 3 different vendors and all 3 batteries failed to work because Dell has battery DRM.
I can't even use it plugged in because the GPU/CPU throttle themselves without a battery hooked up.
My i7, 32gb ram, 4k laptop is a giant dud. Never again.
hnburnsy
Just replaced the 97 WH battery on my Xps15 for the third time in 4 years, got the battery from third party on Amazon for $50, no issues, and the second battery lasted longer than the Dell OEM battery. Just search for 6GTPY. Not sure what DRM issue you ran into.
Install the Dell Power Manager application as it has very granular controls to allow you to maximize battery life and avoid the swelling issue. Good luck.
650REDHAIR
Mind sharing the exact model/link?
throw1234651234
Had XPS 15 for 6 years for work. Screen started dying all the time in year 2. Magically fixed itself after being taken apart multiple times. Network card died. Replaced. Still disconnects sometimes. Added 16 gigs of RAM. Was super picky about what RAM it took. Battery did swell a bit, but then stopped and didn't affect anything. I never replaced it. Overall, I am not too happy, but can't think of a better laptop.
Edit: Saw another comment on overheating - I only run mine on a coolpad, period. I think it fries the RAM otherwise.
Lutger
I absolutely love my Framework laptop for dev. I feel the software support is also quite good, at least for Fedora which is explicitly supported. I got the DIY edition and put everything together, including installing Fedora, in under 1 hour. And I'm a really slow guy, haven't build a computer in 10 years - its too easy with framework.
This laptop is really build to be repairable and modular and it does not suck at all. I think it will last a long time.
The ability to choose your own edition also means I got a reasonably affordable laptop with loads of RAM, which I find is quite useful for development.
RL_Quine
I can see why people idealistically want the device but mine is really not up to being a usable production device. The wonky design of the “modules” means they’re practically useless, the hardware has almost endlessly has stability and issues with bricking, it has never once given me confidence in almost any respect. I want to love the thing and there’s nice features about the product, but I’d hesitate to suggest anybody seriously use the thing.
toberoni
I'm writing this with buyer's remorse on my Framework.
It's a huge step down from my previous Thinkpads. The battery life is atrocious - a night in modern standby drains the battery from 80% to 35%. Outside the office battery life is a constant worry, I mostly use it docked these days.
The display hinge is wobbly - when I lift my Framework from my lap on a table it often folds back 180 degrees. Very annoying.
In general it feels less durable than my old Thinkpad X1.
Linux support is better than on most laptops and worse than on Thinkpads, e.g. no BIOS upgrades out of the box (only beta firmwares for months). Additionally, I experience rare kernel loops, sometimes the laptop doesn't shut off properly etc. Overall Thinkpads seem to be more stable.
nisegami
I believe the hinge is a known issue on earlier models and you can get a replacement from Framework.
Probably start here: https://community.frame.work/t/explainer-lid-rigidity-hinge-...
Key section: "However, we identified that for a period of time last fall, our hinge supplier shipped a subset of hinges with forces below our accepted spec range. We’ve since added additional tests both at the hinge supplier and at our laptop assembly site to prevent out of spec hinges from shipping out. If you have a laptop where the lid angle drops on its own while the laptop is stationary, write into support with a video of it, and we’ll send you a new Hinge Kit."
ajvs
This is because modern Intel processors don't support S3 sleep[1], they instead only have Microsoft's Deep Sleep (s0ix). The only alternative is laptops with ARM or AMD(?) processors, but I haven't got a good recommendation for one.
christophilus
> The display hinge is wobbly
I don’t own a framework, but will probably get one at some point. This issue, at least, has been fixed. You can swap the hinges out for the new ones— not sure if it’s a free fix or not, though.
fnfjcu7
Don't worry the new ThinkPad batteries are just as good awful.
And... It's not actually the batteries, it's just the newer CPUs. If you want good battery life on intel you simply have to downlevel the CPU as much as possible or go back a few generations to an i5. My old x260 still gets 8 hours of coding on a charge. But my recent X1 is lucky to get 3 hours.
danielvaughn
Even though I hear reports like this, I still want to buy one. Entering the hardware market is a hell of a thing to do at this point in time, and I have to applaud their chutzpah. I'm not surprised at all that there are several data points where they don't stack up against multi-billion-dollar companies, and I'm okay with it personally.
pvillano
I think you need a little of that to make it worth it
kkielhofner
Same boat. I’m happy I spent thousands of dollars supporting a startup with ideals. I hate that I live with it everyday.
I’m building a startup and it turns out trying to build a startup literally on a startup maybe isn’t the best idea.
I sincerely regret the purchase.
kzrdude
What are the problems with it in practice? I'd have ordered one if it was shipping to my country
mdp2021
Since you know the product (frame.work) well: how does one get the specifications page?!
Last time I checked, they (notebookcheck.net) said it used a glossy display instead of matte; I cannot find a specifications table in the frame.work website and the closest thing I got is in the "Marketplace Parts" section, e.g. at https://frame.work/products/display-kit - where the non-trivial, simply critical detail of glossy vs matte is not specified.
akvadrako
Matte displays are just glossy displays with a coating that disperses light. You can achieve the same effect by adding a layer. Something like this: https://viascreens.com/screen-protectors/framework/
However turning a matte display into a glossy one isn't possible.
FYI, https://community.frame.work/t/matte-screen-please/577/114.
KptMarchewa
Sometimes the display is so closed to the keyboard when closed that adding any layer is going to damage the display. Macs are good example, you can regularly see keyboard imprints on the display even when there are no additional layers.
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/keyboard-marks-on-displ...
GekkePrutser
It's very hard to do that without any bubbles and a real built in layer is closer to the pixels so there's less blurring. I don't think that's a great alternative for a factory matte screen.
I stick with Lenovo because they make great displays with matte that can even do touch!
mdp2021
Unfortunately, proper placement of a matte film is far from trivial. Nor is procurement.
I used a firm that provided an excellent product and decent service, but two years ago they replaced the film they had used for many years and which was superb, with an appalling grater - you can see the pins with naked eye, and it even sounds when you pass a finger on it. I have stopped purchasing mobile devices because of lack of proper ways to finish the screen.
I was actually thinking of finding a "universal" solution to use at home.
For laptop displays, I think will insist that they are professional grade, for professional use, until () the "universal" solution is in place and () for ethical reasons: you have to guide the market to the best standards and counter the bad ones.
mdp2021
Update: as I was just now searching for information about some equipment to keep at home to make (these too overly frequent) glossy displays matte,
I met from a most prominent producer of chemical products the statement
> Glossy Protection Film offers a glossy finish to help maintain the finish of a glossy display or instantly upgrade a matte display to high-gloss
Repeat for disambiguation: they would """upgrade""" matte to, mh, glossy and highly so. There was also a picture for the monstrosity nearby. So, that «isn't possible» has a counterexample. (Which is not difficult: rub some oil on it etc.)
When I saw that further confirmation of the apparent ongoing process of the total eclipse of good sense and downfall of ethics for the perverse purpose of courting lunatic rubes for their wallets, I uttered something along the lines of Sean Lock's "Are you mental?!" (from the cab driver asked if free for giving a tiger a night ride) - only, in a discriminatory form that moderators would not approve.
RL_Quine
It’s one of the glossiest screens around.
andreareina
Another happy user of the Framework laptop here, I've got Pop!OS LTS installed.
dncornholio
People also are very biased towards this company which makes the laptop seem better than it is? I have doubts about the trackpad and sleep functionality. Overheating also seems to be problematic. Seems to me Framework is not mature enough yet.
Rebelgecko
FWIW, I'm pretty picky about trackpads and I think the Framework's is solid. Maybe not as good as a Macbook's, but not far behind either. Definitely with you on battery life while sleeping though.
brightball
It’s on my shopping list but I’ve heard they have heat issues depending on your workload.
zivkovicp
Please excuse the long-winded answer...
I have also given up on Apple, but mostly because I can't see the value in it anymore, otherwise my experience with them has been satisfactory (Intel CPU models).
For the past few years I used a Microsoft Surface Pro because it seemed to have good build quality and high screen resolution, but despite this I have had to replace it as part of a recall due to a graphics hardware issue, so it was not without its flaws. On a side note, I found the Windows OS to be OK for non-dev work, but would always "work" on the Linux subsystem... so even though Windows supports it quite well, I would just suggest 100% Linux.
For 2022 I decided to buy a "gaming" laptop and switch to 100% Linux. The build quality is a little lower than Apple, and the screen resolution is not as good as Apple or Surface Pro, but it is still good, and when using my external monitor there is no difference.
The benefits are clear, however, for less than 50% of the cost I am getting superior performance, discrete GPU, excellent cooling, and NO LOCK-IN. There is also the added benefit of being able to play the occasional video game with great performance.
So far I don't regret it.
jmyeet
The M1/M2 Macbooks are a total game-changer. You made your switch in the Intel era. I certainly get that because it was the dark days of the pointless Touch Bar and the awful butterfly keyboard.
But now an M2 Macbook Air for $1500-2000 (depending on options) is hard to beat.
The only complaint seems to be in heat distribution. Some people use a cheap heat spreader on their desk. Apple definitely chose a stylish package over optimal thermal design. It's an issue but not a major issue.
EDIT: it's a sad day on HN when you mention how M1/M2 MBs are a big step up from the Intel MBs to a comment about laptop recommendations and you get a bunch of commentless downvotes. WTaF?
neogodless
The thread is about having terrible support from Apple, and the comment you replied to was about getting away from lock-in, but you reply that the more efficient Apple Silicon is a "game-changer." It doesn't change any of the above deal breakers, so your comment comes off as tone deaf.
cruano
> the comment you replied to was about getting away from lock-in
The comment was about them giving up on Apple because "I can't see the value in it anymore", and he pointed out how the value proposition changed with the non-intel macs
Exactly which deal breakers do you mean? it literally says "otherwise my experience with them has been satisfactory" ?
jmyeet
The comment I replied to was about bad experiences with Intel MBPs. Personally, I take no position on whether someone should or shouldn't use a Macbook. I'm not invested in that outcome. Use what you want.
But, at the same time, the particular shortcomings of Intel silicon MBPs is now out-of-date and it seems worth mentioning that.
skyyler
>EDIT: it's a sad day on HN when you mention how M1/M2 MBs are a big step up from the Intel MBs to a comment about laptop recommendations and you get a bunch of commentless downvotes. WTaF?
>to a comment about laptop recommendations
The thread's title is "Is there a developer laptop that does not suck and is not a Mac in 2022?"
zivkovicp
I haven't used the new generation of MacBooks yet, but I might request one from my employer just to get a feel for it.
The Apple experience is more polished for sure, but after Linux, I doubt I will accept any form of proprietary OS/hardware for my personal computer ever again.
jmyeet
You can run Linux on Mac hardware. Linus Torvalds seems to have been doing this for the last decade.
Personally I find Linux desktop environments to be beyond awful with zero hope for salvation but to each their own. I certainly recognize a lot of the shortcomings of OSX but, more than anything, I don't want something I have to endlessly tinker with to get working (and keep working). For me, out of the box experience is paramount.
ModernMech
I think the downvotes are coming from calling it a “game changer”. How has the game actually has changed? What does the new AS MacBook enable that the other ones don’t, or other laptops don’t for that matter?
We live in an age of fast performance and great battery life on most any laptop. Having faster performance and better battery life isn’t changing the game —- that’s how the game has been played as long as laptops have been a consumer product category. If Apple’s support is the same, then the OP’s problem isn’t fixed. Their problem wasn’t performance and battery life.
P.S. I’m speaking as someone who owns both a MacBook Pro and a surface laptop, so I’m not exactly biased against MacBooks.
jmyeet
> How has the game actually has changed?
Battery life for one [1]. Many compare the Dell XPS 13/15 to the MBA/MBP and the XPS has realistically less than half the battery life [2] (the 5.5-7 hours being listed as "feasible" there also requires turning down the display brightness a lot).
The 2011 Macbook Air was heads and shoulders above anything else at the time for that combination of size, cost, power and battery life. Literally nothing else could compete on all of these factors. I mean Linus Torvalds used one [3] (and still does [4]).
On a pure hardware front, the M1/M2 Macbooks are at a similar point where nothing else can compete with that combination of price, power, battery life and form factor, to the point where people will run Linux or Windows on them. You can say it's not for you. You can also say you don't like OSX. That's all fine.
But anti-tribalism is just another form of tribalism. Being irrationally anti-Mac is no better than being irrationally pro-Mac. I'd argue it's worse because the anti-Mac tribalists think they're better than the pro-Mac tribalists.
[1]: https://www.laptopmag.com/news/macbook-air-m2-battery-life-s...
[2]: https://www.windowscentral.com/hardware/laptops/dell-xps-13-...
[3]: https://www.cultofmac.com/162823/linux-creator-linus-torvald...
[4]: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/08/linus-torvalds-uses-...
cruano
I think most tech people went from considering intel-based macbooks as a splurge, to the single best value proposition for consumer laptops.
Before there were many tradeoffs for choosing a macbook, most of them around performance/cost, but all of those are gone when the base $999 macbook air beats way more expensive computers.
I'd recommend this machines to literally everyone that needs a laptop, which is something I can't say for the rest of Apple products or any other piece of tech for that matter
sgarland
> M1/M2 MBs are a big step up from the Intel MBs to a comment about laptop recommendations and you get a bunch of commentless downvotes.
I don't get it, either. What Apple did with the M1 is nothing short of incredible. I bought a stock M1 Air (as in, 8 GB RAM model, since that's what stores carry) as my personal laptop a few months after launch, and could not be happier. The _only_ time I've experienced any issues was in running Minikube, and that was solved by installing Docker Desktop - on Intel, I use hyperkit to avoid that. I think hyperkit supports M1s now anyway.
wyclif
Also, no heat issues. And I don't ever think I've heard the fan spin up on the M1 MBP, and I've hardly been conservative with loads on it. They're great laptops.
aerique
Due to Lenovo shortages I could pick an MSI gaming laptop (GS66 Stealth) to replace my broken work laptop.
It's awesome. Happily been running Guix on it for the past six months. (As expected, since it is Linux on an unsupported machine, I had to put in some time to get it running smoothly but the person after me does not have to do that anymore.)
mszcz
Did a similar thing about 1.5 years ago. Bought a Lenovo Legion 15 with 4800H Ryzen and 32 GB RAM. Upgraded the drives to 1 TB NVMe and 4 TB SATA SSD. It's super fast, discreet graphics, replaceable storage and still cost less than half of a similarity configed Macbook Pro.
specproc
Also a happy Legion user, although the power brick is obscene.
fbr
I'm super happy with it. The perf are great.
2 big drawbacks: the plastic is super fragile and you will need an external microphone (or your coworkers will complain about fan noises)
aerique
Have you tried this for fan noise?: https://github.com/TurboGraphxBeige/isw
zivkovicp
I bought an HP Victus, mostly because I came across a great deal and it has GeForce RTX 3070 graphics.
I'm running Pop! OS linux and it worked out of the box, no special setup necessary. So far I'm happy with it and starting to ask myself why I didn't do this earlier. :)
ur-whale
> For 2022 I decided to buy a "gaming" laptop and switch to 100% Linux.
I researched this option before opting for an LG gram. I might research it again soon.
Would you care to share exactly what gaming laptop you picked?
Darmody
Not OP but if I were to buy a laptop right now, it'd be the Inspiron 16 plus.
Last gen i7, 3050/3060, up to 32GB of RAM, 1TB SSD, 3k 16:10 screen, good battery. And i think they sell it without dedicated graphics card too.
Now I have an Inspiron 7677 which works great on linux except for the fingerprint and the webcam.
Oh, I forgot.
The Tuxedo Pulse 15 gen2 is also a great laptop I think. It's not a gaming laptop, it's more like a Macbook. Ryzen 7 5700U, up to 64GB of RAM, 2k screen, huuuuuuge battery, good connectivity, etc. And you can put your own logo on the lid.
sofixa
Not OP, but I've heard great things about the Asus ROG Zephyrus line, and that's what I'll probably get when i refresh my current Asus laptop which id approaching 8 years.
kitsunesoba
The problem I ran into with a Zephyrus G15 that I owned for a short bit is that it was inanely fussy about GPU drivers. I had the 5900HS/3080 version, and under Windows if I we’re running anything other than the OEM Nvidia drivers, I’d lose 20% GPU performance without a corresponding reduction in heat. Didn’t matter if the drivers came from Nvidia or Windows Update, same problem.
What made it worse is that locking the Nvidia drivers to a specific version is not straightforward — if you only lock the main driver with Windows policy manager, Windows Update will update other parts of the Nvidia driver and leave you with drivers that are partially broken.
I didn’t try Linux since this machine was intended mostly for gaming.
I ended up returning it at the end of its return window, because I don’t have time for a machine that won’t run properly without absurdly specific drivers. Built a gaming tower with the money instead, which has not only been better behaved but doesn’t sound like I’m cooking it alive when I’m running games on it like the G15 did.
maxsilver
I love my older ROG Zephyrus G14. Use it everyday for heavy Ruby on Rails + Java, with some gaming on the side (Control, Warframe)
It doesn't necessarily look great, but it's not offensively gamerish. There's a nice utility that lets you turn the fans off/on and GPU on/off, so it gets good battery life with GPU off. USB-C charging supported, nice matte screen, 120hz+ refresh rate. I have mine setup with 40gb of RAM (one 8GB dim is baked on, one is upgradable) and with a replacement Intel wifi chip.
When I need a replacement, I'll probably get the newer 2022-ish G14. They upgraded the USB-C ports (both now support display out), they put better WiFi in by default, and they went all-AMD for CPU+GPU, all of which seem like great ideas to me.
APhoenixRises
I had a Zephyrus G15 (2021) which ran great, but the screen brightness wasn't great. When I heard this year's G14 had a brighter display and an AMD CPU and GPU, I dove in and installed Fedora. Other than standby, everything just worked.
The thing I will ding Asus about is serviceability. It's easy enough to remove the screws to take the bottom panel off, but there was always one screw for NVME/Wifi that had so much loctite that I ended up needing a special pair of plyers to remove.
parasubvert
I have a 2020 ROG zephyrus g15 and it’s great other than the noise/heat which is annoying but not a deal breaker. and prior to 2022 there was a lack of camera. It doesn’t compare to the new M1/M2 laptops (I bought one for my parents and it’s incredible) but I’m satisfied for my needs, which needed to be Linux/Windows with a DisplayPort for VR.
geraldwhen
Asus rog laptops have high pitched, loud fans that run while idle.
The trackpad is also terrible.
rickstanley
Which model do plan buying? I'm trying to get my hands on G15 2022, doesn't have the "gamey" look, has a good battery life (9 hours or so) and just powerful enough with a 3060
zivkovicp
I bought an HP Victus 16", AMD CPU, 32GB RAM
Ultimately the deciding factor was the price and the GeForce RTX 3070 GPU, it was on sale, and Linux drivers were available for all of the hardware.
I'm running Pop! OS and haven't had any issues.
mmusc
Some of the lenovo legion laptops don't look very "gamey". You still get the excellent cooling and performance. Only complaint is the battery life but I use it mostly on my desks so its not really an issue.
rickstanley
Legion 7i Slim looks pretty slick, but unfortunately it doesn't have Ethernet port, and I haven't heard good things about the wireless card in terms of performance, but it also depends on your router (if it supports WF 6)
inawarminister
I've been using an Ideapad Gaming 3 laptop for a year now, zero issue with Pop-OS.
als0
If I may ask, what do you think of the LG Gram?
TacticalCoder
Not GP but I'm very happy with mine. Can't speak for every model but I've got an old 15Z970 with 24 GB of RAM (from 2017 I think).
LG Grams aren't cheap laptops. They don't have the retina display. But they're nice, lightweight (lighter than Mac laptops) and overall feel good.
I'd say it doesn't feel as polished as the latest Mac laptops but it feels way sturdier. My M1 Macbook Air always felt like it's screen was brittle: some porcelaine to be manipulated with the greatest care or it'd break. And break it did, after 10 months, seemingly for no reason.
While my 5 years old LG Gram is still going perfectly fine.
I use it every time I'm not at my beasty desktop.
blep_
I have one too (17Z90N), and it's pretty nice, as laptops go.
~10h battery life on Linux with minimal tweaking, decent keyboard and touchpad, huge screen (I've tried to use the tiny laptops that are popular these days, and they just do not work for me).
Things I don't care much about and so explicitly won't review: camera, internal audio (I only ever use headphones), battery life when closed (I just go put it on my desk and plug it in when I'm not using it)
My one major complaint is that the edges are unreasonably sharp. Seriously, I don't know who designed this thing, but they apparently use laptop keyboards very differently than I do. I have been considering filing them down.
I also got it on ebay for what I now realize is significantly below the price it would've been new. I don't think it's worth $1800, but I don't think any (personal) computer is worth $1800, so adjust your weighting of this opinion as desired.
benjaminwootton
I am the same with regards to value. Even though I can stretch to it, the prices for MacBooks in the UK are off the charts. Tempted to look elsewhere on principle next time.
zivkovicp
That's really what did it for me, I like Apple products and think they are great quality, but I don't think they are good enough to justify the price; and for me, the "status" that comes with it (if any) is worthless.
andrei_says_
For me the value of Apple is to develop and design on the same machine, reliably.
A privacy-oriented OS that allows me to run photoshop Lightroom etc. in addition to dev things.
At this point I wouldn’t touch Windows with a 10-foot pole.
tmaly
If your primary usage is development, I still think the resolution on the screen is a very important factor for your eyes.
feet
Seconding this.
Eluktronics has some well spec'ed machines
formerly_proven
The current (2022) LG Gram come with Intel Alder Lake and dual USB4/TB4, they basically seem to be the only interesting competitors to the lightweight Apple laptops. The 14" model is 1.0 kg compared to the M1 Macbook Air at 1.3 kg.
Linux compatibility is very good with current kernels (I had a few DRM/GuC restarts with 5.18, those seem to be fixed in 5.19), all hardware works out of the box. ADL-P power management is still being worked on afaik, so for the time being it seems like the power profile you set does have a larger than usual impact - powersave results in 20-30h runtime, balanced more like 10. The base models have a 1240P, which is an "4C8T + 8C8T" CPU (for a total of sixteen threads).
The CNVi Intel wifi in these doesn't seem to have the 5G bug.
Edit: One issue with virtually any better-ish new laptop will be that the display won't be native sRGB. The LG Gram series uses P3 displays, for example (most will be similar), which means that colors will be over-saturated and especially reds will be very intense and orange-y. MacOS has the correct color management to deal with this, Windows and Linux don't really, and Wayland in particular has very poor support for color management. I've manually set a generic P3 profile in Firefox and that pulls most colors back into a more agreeable shape.
ur-whale
>The current (2022) LG Gram
I use a 16 inches 2021 model (so an 11th gen Intel CPU instead of Alder Lake) on a daily basis both at the office and on the go, running Ubuntu 20.04LTS
I really, really like it:
- runs Linux out of the box
- *extremely* lightweight
- battery lasts forever even with CPU-hungry workloads, typically a full day.
- very nice 16 inches hi-rez (2560 x 1600) screen
- very comfortable keyboard and touchpad
- supports an external 4k screen through USB-C without a sweat
- super fast (especially if you install your OS on raid-0 dual SSD)
- 4 12th gen cores (8 with hyperthreading on)
- built-in GPU (Intel® Iris® Xe MAX Graphics) has enough oomph to run blender @ 4k with very large textured scenes
- on my specific version (I believe the 2022 models have fixed this), built-in speakers don't seem work on Linux, only windows (the earphones jack works, just not the built-in speakers which Linux can't seem to control the volume of properly)
- when the laptop is not on a flat surface and a bit twisted, the left click on the touch pad sometimes fails.
formerly_proven
On the 2022 version the speakers work out of the box. For the touchpad I prefer touch gestures instead of the mechanical clicking, but haven't noticed any issues so far. Gestures work really well on Linux (Fedora 36, KDE, not sure if it matters). Only pinch-to-zoom is bit janky at times, but 2D scrolling, one/two/three finger tapping, tap'n'drag and even switching fingers around for long drags all just works and is nice and smooth. Not missing a trackpoint.
As far as external displays go, if I understand it correctly these can drive a total of three external displays, both of the USB-C/TB4 ports should have DP alt mode and MST besides the HDMI output.
I'm honestly a bit surprised about the LG Gram series - you'd think there would be more talk about it. I didn't even know LG was making laptops, let alone such good ones; I only learned about them a few weeks ago by a random drive-by comment here on HN were someone mentioned them and that Linux just works, few weeks later I ended up having to buy a laptop on very short notice and remembered that comment.
antongribok
I love my LG Gram 17 from 3.5 years ago (I think it's a 2018 model).
Costco sells them, and when they go on sale, the value can't be beat IMHO.
Great screen, amazing battery (even after 3 years), zero issues on Linux (Fedora), love the dual NVMe option.
I'm thinking of upgrading to a 16" model, but I'll probably wait until another year.
Edit to add: Costco now carries 14 different models.
bengalister
I was interested to buy the 14Z90Q since it ticked most of the boxes for me: lightweight, good battery life, TB4 ports, 12th gen cpu, not crazy expensive RAM upgrade, etc.
The only downside on the specs was the screen brightness only 350 nits for the latest model.
Also I read some negative comments on Amazon about CPU throttling that seems to be more aggressive than for other laptops. I don't have more information at which temperature throttling starts and to which frequency it goes, so it might be a false alarm but I would be interested to read owners comments.
AlanYx
>The LG Gram series uses P3 displays, for example (most will be similar), which means that colors will be over-saturated and especially reds will be very intense and orange-y.... Wayland in particular has very poor support for color management.
This is a big issue for me. Sway/wlroots in particular seems to have no standardized way to assign an ICC profile to a monitor (Gnome and KDE do have the option though), or at least not one I was able to figure out.
gtirloni
> Edit: One issue with virtually any better-ish new laptop will be that the display won't be native sRGB. The LG Gram series uses P3 displays, for example (most will be similar), which means that colors will be over-saturated and especially reds will be very intense and orange-y.
I spent a week fine tuning Linux/Win11 with a new Dell monitor because reds were really weird. I know nothing about color management so it was really frustrating.
ivank
Windows 10 and 11 can run https://github.com/ledoge/dwm_lut ("applies 3D LUTs to the Windows desktop by hooking into DWM")
pwpw
Last year I became annoyed with some of the MacOS limitations and decided I wanted a laptop capable of running Linux.
I settled on the Thinkpad X1 Nano. It weighs less than a MacBook Air, has a matte HiDPI screen, which is great for sunlight, a built in camera shutter, and most importantly, a great keyboard experience. I also splurged and added a 5G modem. The laptop is spill and dust proof and can clearly take more of a beating than a MacBook could. It's designed to be rugged while traveling.
This laptop has been an absolute delight. It feels like nothing is in my backpack, which is a nice complement to my stronger desktop at home. The performance is good enough for my development workflow, and the battery is fine to last during my workday. The only negative I would say is that the battery life is noticeably shorter than the M1 MacBook Air I previously had, but it's not terrible. Just not amazing. The laptop runs relatively quietly, which was another factor I wanted.
I'm running Fedora Linux on it, which I've come to enjoy more than MacOS. If you're looking for a nicer laptop to rival a MacBook, you'd be hard pressed to find a better option in my opinion. I spent about $1300 in total on this laptop.
adisbladis
Lenovo's paid warranty has been fantastic for me in the multiple countries where I've used it (Sweden, Hong Kong and Mexico). In all three they sent out a local service technician that fixed the problem on-site.
Once it was a a worn out SSD that was replaced with one twice as big as that was the only thing they had in stock (Sweden), another time it was a broken connector on the motherboard (Hong Kong) and the third time it was a broken display (Mexico, Cozumel). I was most impressed by the service in Mexico as it's pretty far from any major cities and the technician came out after only a day.
If good warranty service is important to you I cannot recommend enough to get a Lenovo (T, P or X series) laptop and shell out for the extra warranty.
brtkdotse
I bought a P14s a few months ago and got an offer for 3 years of premium on-site support for €1 :D
Note that you have to purchase it as a company to get access to the premium support.
kramerger
I had the same experience with Lenovo. On-site support is expensive but also a no-brainer for professional users.
Just beware that Lenovo makes some great laptops as well as some really really crappy models.
jgb1984
Laptops are all together awful. I can't imagine working on one for more than a few hours. My self built desktop blows any laptop out of the water in speed, comfort, reliability, upgrade / repair potential and ergonomics (obviously ignoring portability).
NorwegianDude
I personally hate traveling with my desktop setup...
Everyone can probably agree that a desktop is better if you have the space, don't need to move it and doesn't mind a bit higer power consumption. A laptop has some clear usecases to.
Desktop for work, laptop for when I travel and might have to work.
Lio
This is all personal but I prefer the compact layout and low travel of a laptop keyboard.
That plus having a trackpad centrally located and a second screen below my main monitor really works for me.
I haven’t used a desktop in 20 years. Horses for courses I guess.
lifeplusplus
Is there a keyboard with Mac like trackpad built in even better of it's split keyboard
tluyben2
I cannot imagine sitting in one place when working. I move, with my laptop, from desk to the couch to the outside table to the gym to the coffee shop to the bar. If I had a desktop, it would gather dust in 2 seconds flat.
But then you did say ignoring portability, so it depends what you value most, as most things do.
samatman
Portability is the first thing I look for in a work machine, personally.
I have a nice desktop setup, 5k2k, keeb, trackball, stream deck, my laptop runs it without making any noise, slowing down, or otherwise misbehaving.
I can easily drive to the manufacturer's authorized retail outlet in the event that it has problems, which has indeed happened twice over the nine laptops I've owned from this manufacturer in the last 15 years.
YMMV. Brand not mentioned out of respect for the aesthetics of this thread.
snarfy
Where are you going with your computer to do real work? I've never used a laptop to get real work done where I need to sit for 4+ hours that wasn't a nice desk with ergonomic chair and large monitors.
The only thing I ever did with my laptops when it wasn't plugged into a docking station at a desk was surf the web, and I can do that from my phone.
samatman
I have a standing desk, gamer-style ergo chair, a Lay-Z-boy, a bed, a table and chair outside, and a cafe nearby I'm fond of. The laptop can go to all of those places.
I can't work in bed for hours. But I can for a half hour after lunch, take a nap, then set back up at the desk as I am now.
I lived without a monitor for several years, you get the hang of it. I did have to bump up from 13" to 16" so I can use it without reading glasses for a few more years.
I'm definitely more efficient with more real estate, but not in a way that holds me back most of the time.
I've also trained myself to type on a laptop in a way that's hard to describe but: left hand V to Q, right hand N to P/[, so at a natural angle for my wrists. I've been using a split keyboard for long enough that twisting my wrists to accommodate a narrow keyboard isn't something I was willing to keep doing. This lets me get paragraphs/pages written without pain, whether I'm at the desk or not.
NateEag
I massively prefer a good workstation with large monitors and a nice keyboard, but I've done plenty of real work on a laptop.
Airplanes, coffee shops, recliners, internetless cabins... a laptop's been all I needed for doing everything from web development to audio synthesis algorithm development.
rr888
I dont know how anyone can work all day on a 15 in screen, drives me crazy.
Cthulhu_
In practice they'll be hooked up to a display wherever someone works (office or at home), although I guess a select / elite few get to set it up in a coffee shop for a while.
tymm
In terms of speed, at least when we look at mostly single-threaded work load (like most dev work is), a M2 Macbook Air is faster than every Desktop PC. Correct me if I'm wrong.
dagw
Eh. The 12900k still has the edge in most single threaded benchmarks, and the latest Threadripper Pro will easily crush it on multithreaded loads (all while drawing close to an order of magnitude more power). Also your MacBook Air will thermal throttle if under load for too long, while a desktop computer offers a lot more options for cooling. Further more a desktop computer gives you the option to use faster storage and more and faster RAM which might be very relevant in some scenarios. Plus there is the whole GPU/CUDA side of things which may or may not be relevant to you.
All that being said, I'm typing this on an M1 MBP and the perceived day to day performance is better than any desktop computer I've owned, even if it will no doubt lose out a 'real' workstation when it comes to running 24 hour CFD simulations.
WesolyKubeczek
I suspect that if I crank my I/O subsystem to do flushes no more often than once in 40 seconds and lie to fsync/fdatasync, my Threadripper setup is also going to run circles around my M2 Air. (Heck, I suspect my XPS13 will be almost on par.)
But then again, the M2 Air has this bulky UPS called „laptop battery”, so they can afford such little lies as long as the OS itself won’t shit itself and die randomly. Granted, it happens rarely, but nevertheless.
Hendrikto
> mostly single-threaded work load (like most dev work is)
Citation needed. This definitely does not match any of my experiences at all.
stonith
Not sure most dev work is single threaded. Test suites can be multithreaded/multiprocess and so can compiling, just for two examples.
Hendrikto
* IDE
* Docker daemon
* backend container
* frontend container
* database container
* local web server
* browser with Gitlab, Slack, Email, etc.
No idea how dev work is suppsed to be mostly single-threaded.
Cthulhu_
I'd like to see an updated iMac or Mac Pro, I'm sure they're on the way.
mdp2021
Warning: in the past couple of years, manufacturers that shipped perfectly decent products have started replacing good components and build quality with unusable crap. If something has to sit in front of you for hours, you want materials that do not hinder you while you are operating. Expect the successors of some formerly very good lines to be noisy on touch (as in, tapping on a cardboard box), to be unpleasant on touch (with reference to touchpads), to stink. Plus, heavily tinted displays with spotlights, etc. Nowadays, you must assess it physically, not just on on-paper specifications.
mtmail
Related from 4 months ago "Ask HN: What’s a good laptop for software development at around $2k?" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31094361 First comment-thread is about Apple but once collapsed the next 10 are non-Apple recommendations.
samuell
TIL one can collapse HN threads. With all the clear labels on HN, perhaps a [collapse] link would have been clearer.
djmips
Were you never curious about what the little [-] did? Where's your sense of adventure! I rib you, but at the same time I understand and your idea has merit.
srmarm
Not the person you're asking, but I thought the [-] acted as a downvote button and hid the offending content at the same time.
If it isn't, why do some controversial comments get into a lighter font?
samuell
I might have used it at some time, but must have forgot it since then. I now find it super useful to be able to collapse long threads, to see what others have posted :D
chaosbolt
>Account created in 2013
Are you joking?
cesarb
> Account created in 2013
Which means that, when the parent poster started using this site, these Javascript-only thread collapsing buttons didn't exist (I took a quick look at archive.org to confirm). Since these buttons are so subtle, it is plausible that the parent poster didn't notice when they appeared.
samarthr1
~no, they are samuell~ Jokes aside, it probably may not have been the most intuitive way.
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cranium
I'm a happy owner of a Dell Precision 5520 that is already 5 years old. It shipped with a Ubuntu LTS by default and I took a 3-year next day repair warranty that I used once for a swollen battery. I cannot express how happy I was to have my laptop repaired in less than an hour in my kitchen by a Dell certified technician. Given how dependent I am on my computer for work, if I had to send it I would have lost at least a week of productivity. Instead, it was just a minor inconvenience. Sh*t happens, but I would pay for this peace of mind every time.
For my next laptop, I'm waiting for Framework to open shipping to Switzerland. It won't come this kind of warranty but its full repairability will make up for it.
adrian_b
I am also the happy owner of a Dell Precision, but an even older model, 7510, so 6-years old. It has never had any HW problem, despite intensive use, including during many business trips.
It was also bought with Ubuntu, but I have wiped that and I have installed Gentoo, as this is what I prefer. Support for Linux has been perfect, for all included peripherals, e.g. Thunderbolt, video camera, WiFi, Bluetooth, card reader, etc.
This heavier model has a modest battery life, which is normal for a laptop containing the top Mobile Xeon CPU and the top NVIDIA Quadro GPU of that year. Unlike lighter laptops, it has excellent cooling, which allows the CPU to dissipate 60 W for an indefinite time (despite the official TDP of only 45 W) allowing the fast compilation of large software projects, without thermal throttling and without excessive noise.
I develop software for embedded computers, so a I need a laptop like this Dell Precision 7000 series, with a large number of USB ports and with Ethernet, to be able to connect to various prototypes and development boards.
In conclusion, I can recommend the Dell Precision 7000 series for software development, especially under Linux. Unfortunately, they are rather overpriced, which is also true about all the other laptops labelled as "mobile workstations".
brightball
My Precision 7710 has been great and is about the same age. All of the ports on the left side just died. Display port, HDMI, USB-A, USB-C.
I’m glad it lasted as long as it did, but they don’t even have parts for it anymore so I can’t get it repaired.
It still hasn’t completely died so I’m still using it as a laptop but ended up getting a little System76 Meerkat for my desk and I love it. I just use the laptop as a 3rd screen with Barrier.
secondcoming
I have a Precision 7750 that I stuck 128GB RAM into. It's a beast, but I use it as a desktop really, so I'm not sure what the battery life is like.
tchaffee
Dells used to be excellent and I have bought many over the years. My last XPS had several problems including a swollen battery in less than a year and a sticky keyboard which only got worse. Support was no help in either case. Their build quality and support has gone downhill. Strong avoid.
I'm currently experimenting with gaming laptops and am much happier with build quality and the great performance doesn't hurt either.
Gatsky
Not sure I want a new laptop where the battery swells up within 3 years.
z9znz
This can happen to any device if there's a one-off manufacturing problem somewhere (esp in the battery).
I don't see it very often, but I've seen it on a Surface Pro (the store display model!... I had to point it out to the staff and suggest they replace it before it caught fire and hurt a shopper), on my 2014 MBP after 4 years, and some other device I now forget about.
Unless lots of people are reporting this for a given device, it's probably just a fluke. It can happen, but it usually doesn't.
tchaffee
Which is fine if they would replace it. But Dell no longer does so it's your cost if you get unlucky. Buyer beware. My keyboard also started sticking on my latest Dell. I won't even sell it to someone it's such a troublesome laptop.
ur-whale
> For my next laptop, I'm waiting for Framework
Can the Framework laptop be powered via USB-C or are they still using power jacks like in the 20th century?
adrian_b
Actually I strongly hate the laptops that can be powered only via USB-C, blocking thus a very useful I/O port, unless you also carry with you a docking station.
Powering via USB-C would be OK only on laptops with at least 4 or 5 USB-C/Thunderbolt ports, but such laptops are non-existent.
Laptops with only 2 USB-C ports, where 1 is blocked by the charger, are useless for me. When I have access to a power plug, I usually also want to use an external SSD and an external DisplayPort monitor, which need 2 USB-C ports.
cesarb
> > Can the Framework laptop be powered via USB-C or are they still using power jacks like in the 20th century?
> Powering via USB-C would be OK only on laptops with at least 4 or 5 USB-C/Thunderbolt ports, but such laptops are non-existent.
Isn't the Framework an example of a laptop with 4 USB-C/Thunderbolt ports? (IIRC, there's also some Apple laptop model with 2 USB-C/Thunderbolt ports on each side, for a total of 4, said model being infamous for having performance problems whenever a charger is plugged on the "wrong" side.)
z9znz
It's a tradeoff for reduced laptop size (portability). If you're at home and need to connect to many things, you usually have a dock or expansion dongle. On the road, you often only need 2 ports - one for charging and one for whatever momentary things you need to plug in briefly.
My Macbook Air M1 with only two USB-C ports has been just fine. I have a small but effective Anker "hub" which adds SD, HDMI, USB, and USB-C. Usually I don't need it, so it stays in my primary bag while my nice and portable laptop goes everywhere.
chiefalchemist
My XPS from 1.5 years ago has 4 USB-C ports.
Tsiklon
Unfortunately the only example of a laptop I was aware of with 4x Thunderbolt ports was the much maligned 2016-2019 MacBook Pro series. the new models have 3 - and a dedicated charger port in the new iteration of MagSafe, but can also still charge off the Thunderbolt ports.
christophilus
I love it. I plug it into my 5k screen, and it stays charged. When I’m not at my desk, I’m not generally using my ports.
2muchcoffeeman
What country is this?
People are suggesting Frame Work laptops but if you don’t have official Apple support, it’s even less likely Frame Work ships to this country and if you managed to get one you’d have no support.
I imagine you need to go the Dell XPS or Lenovo route.
enlyth
The XPS are pretty decent machines, I just wish they didn't get so damn hot. This is probably Intel's fault? Can't have the laptop on your lap because it will burn through your legs and it's loud af since the fans spin at a million RPM trying to cool it down.
Aiming to sell my 13" XPS and replace it with an M2 Macbook Air, after work gave me an M1 16" Pro and it's just so unbelievably efficient and never gets hot, plus the battery last all day under heavy load.
z9znz
It's Dell's fault. They are the ones designing the internals of the laptop and choosing the power levels.
I use a top of the line XPS for several years, and there were two common user-fixes that really improved this heat issue: adding a thermal transfer pad between a couple of the power-related chips and the case, and running a CPU voltage tool to reduce the voltage a bit. Undervolting really made a huge difference, including making the laptop overall faster. The stupid thing, even in a good environment, would go into heat-reduction mode after a few seconds of heavy load, cutting the clock speeds in half. But just by reducing the CPU voltage a few tenths of a volt, the heat was much lower and the CPU almost never throttled. Even so, the fans were loud and usually on.
On paper it looked like a phenomenal laptop. In actual use, it was very unpleasant.
In contrast, my M1 Air has been a dream. I'm trying to think of a negative about it, but honestly I can't think of anything. I've been using it most of every day for a year, on a desk with a big monitor as well as in several places around the world. Even the 16GB RAM limitation has rarely been an issue (except occasionally with my last client that was deeply in love with Docker... 8 running containers plus JetBrains IDEs and of course Firefox with a couple dozen tabs does eventually slow the laptop a bit, but only occasonally).
The new M2 with 24GB will be perfect, especially with the slightly brighter screen for those beachside moments ;)
2muchcoffeeman
I use my XPS for work. But I've got a M2 Air coming for personal projects.
tchaffee
Dell isn't what it used to be. Strong avoid. My latest XPS had a swollen battery in less than a year and support said it's my problem. Then the keyboard started getting the pretty common sticky key problem with several different keys. I've forgotten the other problems but I won't even give this laptop away it's so useless. I've switched to gaming laptops and am happy so far with the build quality and performance. Not sure about support though.
ktpsns
Thinkpad X1 (Yoga/Carbon) do great for heavy use developer laptops. I use them since the first generation, with Linux as operating system. Never had serious issues with drivers, even wacom, digitizer and auto display rotation are working nowadays, not to speak of USB-3, fingerprint sensors, etc. The whole device is a no-brainer and just works.
chunk_waffle
A place I work used to order them for developers, they're awesome little machines but not without their issues too. We had constant issue with them no longer charging for people, something on the motherboard related to charging would just die sometimes machines only a few weeks old would do this. You'd start your day, try to start up your laptop and it would be dead and require sending back to Lenovo (which to their credit they would fix and return within a reasonable time frame.)
kwanbix
In the company I currently work, we have the option of MacBook Pro's or ThinkPad X1 Carbon. I never seen such a problem. I am not saying that it does not exist.
kwanbix
Yeah, after many, many problems with Dell's and HP's (I worked at IBM and we absorved thouthands of such machines on outsourcing deals), I recommend ThinkPads, Series X, T, P.
shp0ngle
I have looked at Thinkpad x1 carbon, and they are so expensive! People complain about Apple Tax, but the x1 Carbon is so much more expensive for what it does.
xur17
Are you comparing based on the base price, or the "discounted" price? (I ask because Thinkpads seem to almost always have a 20 - 50% off sale - right now I believe it's 50% off).
BiggsHoson
I always buy my ThinkPads as factory refurbs with remaining warranty from reputable sellers on eBay, saving quite a bit of money.
camgunz
Yeah there's a premium. For me the T14 is still thin/light enough, and it has an Ethernet jack (!), and it's a lot cheaper.
650REDHAIR
Check at Thanksgiving!
I try to wait for Black Friday/cyber Monday because ThinkPads are usually 1/2 off.
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Background: I am sick of Apple's terrible customer support in my country. The most recent case was that of my friend who upgraded to a 14 inch Macbook Pro that stopped booting in 7 days. Since there is no return option in 30 days like in other geographies, he took it to Apple's authorised service centre (there are no Apple owned service centres in my country), and they put a big scratch right across the Apple logo. To add to this, Apple's customer support final response after more than a week of wasting his time was they would not be able to replace the display even when my friend sent clear voice recordings of the service centre employees accepting their mistake. He had to take the help of the local police who went with him to the shop to get a written statement that they would be replacing the display too along with the mainboard to fix the primary issue of dead laptop.
I have had my own horror stories in the past 10 years and I do not want to pay another dime to Apple for such pathetic treatment even under warranty.
Are there any other options for someone like me?