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dang
There's a detailed response here: https://www.godaddy.com/garage/godaddy-felons-io-unregistere...
currently discussed at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24523901.
ted0
Ted from Namecheap here.
I cannot speak to GoDaddy's practices. However, I can say that for Namecheap, this is not something we would ever even consider doing.
In my experience though, lookups are more complex than most think. We are querying so many different sources to give you availability status, some of which are less reliable than others. For example, with smaller TLDs like .ai or .is, lookups may be less reliable than a well-oiled machine like Verisign, which operates the .com and .net TLDs, among others. As a result, sometimes with a less reliable registry, there can be false positives, resulting in the registrar showing a domain as "available" when it is actually registered.
In addition to registry connection reliability, there are also many different aftermarket sources that registrars often pull from. You know when you see a Premium domain (registered and usually higher priced) in search? That could be coming from any number of 3rd party aftermarket platforms, which also can have varying reliability and/or stale listings.
Lastly, you have to consider that some registrars handle the "drop window" differently than others. If a domain deletes and is removed from the zone, ergo, becoming available again, some registrars have a buffer period before they show it as available again.
It does not appear that Felons.io had ever been registered before, which makes this case pretty strange.
lordnacho
Namecheap is so much better than godaddy.
Interface : just give me the records. I don't want to buy more stuff. Somehow namecheap lets me but the same extras like email, without badgering me. Godaddy is just ads ads ads and interfaces to sell stuff to people who aren't tech savvy.
Squatting: this definitely happens with godaddy, like the OP says. Never use them, it's a disgusting practice.
I use namecheap for dozens of domains. I only used godaddy once because I couldn't get the tld on namecheap.
EricE
Another very satisfied namecheap customer. It's so nice to not have to feel like you need to take a shower after visiting your DNS control panel.
johnisgood
What do you mean by that? I use Gandi and I think their UI is excellent. Their "DNS control panel" is top notch, straight to the point, can do anything you want, easily. It is intuitive, no bullshit.
nemosaltat
+1 to this.
I finally tried Namecheap after 10 years of 1and1 for my personal site, and various free DDNS services for my home router. Namecheap is easy, and has guides for just about everything you’d want to do. Now my routers public IP has an easy FQDN, which cost me less than $20 for 3 years and I can update with a cURL one-liner to Namecheap’s API.
Mrtierne
Was it an easy transfer from 1and1 to Namecheap?
vincentmarle
I've actually always used Godaddy for searching and Namecheap for registering, simply because Godaddy's search interface is faster and more stable but Namecheap is great for not hassling you and way easier to configure. Fix the search Namecheap, and I will no longer use Godaddy again!
ted0
Try our new Beast Mode tool for searching: https://www.namecheap.com/domains/registration/results/?doma...
tsycho
Try http://instantdomainsearch.com/
(No affiliation, just a happy user)
rezonant
https://domainr.com is a great way to search for domains super fast
TobTobXX
> I only used godaddy once because I couldn't get the tld on namecheap.
Interesting... I'd love to get a .as domain, but Namecheap don't offer that. Does GoDaddy have more TLDs or where would you suggest to look for obscure TLDs?
ted0
we haven't seen a lot of demand for .as but if there are other folks on here that want it, we could consider onboarding it! Just upvote this comment to +1 ;)
weddpros
Can I recommend gandi.net as a way to check your domains? It's just what I'm using, and their whois interface is really nice imho
usaphp
Namecheap’s interface for domain verification is very unintuitive, you have to jump through hoops to actually get a dns record you need to add, in order for you to verify your domain.
joering2
Sadly I still have few domains with them, after disgrunted ex-employee claimed few domains via chat (knowing company details) and namecheap put our domains into 2 weeks suspension (loss of about $250,000 of revenue) until we finally get them back and it wasn't about providing some additional evidence of who's the real owner, it was more of a pushing hard thru chat to the point majority of their Eastern European-based only chat crew knew my company by name.
But I still get some weird error messages, empty red alert boxes that doesnt say anything, and general burps time to time when trying to navigate their GUI. At least GoDaddy GUI is much more intuitive but yet they try to sell more - an obvious goal of any for-profit company.
I eventually routed most of my domains to dynadot that has much more safe chat and is US based only. No Easter European have access to my names, contacts, credit card info etc - God only knows what they can do with that info knowing an average salary in countries like Ukraine is $200 per month.
Sometimes when I read these comments like "Namecheap is the best domain provider ever" I chuckle a little - every company has an outstanding record until you test them in times when rubber truly hits the road. 99% of domain users never had any issues because ownership of domain is pretty straightforward business. So these folks than never have a problem are the last one you should be listening to when you pick a domain provider.
Just my 2c.
Edit: I don't have a dog in this race, I don't work for any domain provider and my business is entirely unrelated so I have no business in badmouthing namecheap other than personally having crappy experience with them. But I am sure for every me there is 100 people who got no issues, so that's that.
ted0
Are you talking about verifying a domain (say for GSuite) with a TXT record? Unfortunately, there's no way to make this one-click since the TXT records provided are unique but we appreciate the feedback and will explore how we can make this use case more straightforward.
dheera
Also a very satisfied Namecheap customer. I do wish I didn't have to click so many things to modify DNS records though. But just a minor issue.
GoDaddy doesn't even sound like a professional service to me. The name itself wreaks of technical incompetence. I want round-the-clock network infra experts managing my domains, not some random dude's daddy.
santa_boy
+1 ... I bought 3 domains last month and have no particular affinity for provider.
The Namecheap interface and usability was very pleasing. I actually searched first on Godaddy before settling for Namecheap on all the domains.
Not least, but I got a lower price on Namecheap on all of them and yeah much lesser cross selling attempt which is nice for the DIY types :-)
rkagerer
Another long time Namecheap customer with good things to say. Only "complaint" is that discount codes are not more prolific :-).
robotnikman
Ah Namecheap, the first and only domain registrar I've ever used, first used them to get a name for a Minecraft server I hosted almost a decade ago :)
Definitely would recommend. Haven't used Godaddy myself, but i've heard horror stories from others
ted0
A decade! Thank you for that.
qxxx
I used to use goDaddy like 15 years ago... than moved to namecheap. namecheap is so much better. I needed the godaddy support few times, it was always a terrible experience. And the UI was always bloated with unnecessary crap.
pdxandi
Same here. Been on Namecheap for as long as I can remember with quite a few domains.
timcederman
Hi Ted - can you speak to Namecheap's stance on bulk spam domain registrations and the fact that Namecheap does nothing to stop it?
There has been (at least in the Bay Area) a large increase in text spam. They all have a very similar format, e.g. pretending you missed a delivery, and try to get you to click on a link, usually a .info domain.
They are all hosted on Alibaba Cloud, but they are registered in bulk via Namecheap. Your legal and abuse team says they have no obligation to prevent such registrations, but to instead take it up with the FTC or the hosting, both of which do nothing either.
Here's a recent article about the problem with bulk registrations and spam: https://www.spamhaus.org/news/article/795/weaponizing-domain...
edit: I highly recommend reading the article for more context on why bulk domain registration is problematic. Note the DOJ filed a temporary restraining order again Namecheap, and the office of the NY AG also contacted them due to their role in spam and scams.
To address some of the questions and comments below:
> A registrar is simple: request a domain, they check you match the requirement for said domain rules, take your money and register the domain for you. Very simple, very stupid, very non-opiniated.
Where do you draw the line on this? How do you feel about registering hate speech in a domain name, or someone else's trademark? Clearly there needs to be some level of regulation.
> do they have any obligation to investigate the purouse people want to use the domains for
Do domain hosts have any obligation to investigate what people are hosting? Does Google have an obligation to remove results from search? There are clearly multiple parties to hosting content on the web, and it's a shared responsibility to keep folks doing the right thing
> Are you asking Namecheap to take unilateral action against domain registrations with no due process?
No - what makes you think that's what I was asking?
nolok
You really, really don't want registrars to enter that game.
A registrar is simple: request a domain, they check you match the requirement for said domain rules, take your money and register the domain for you. Very simple, very stupid, very non-opiniated.
If registrars start deciding who is worthy of domains, what arbitrary set of rules they want you to follow on top of the real ones, what set of laws they act as judge for ... Things would go wrong insanely quickly.
If the price of that is that they let abusers through too then fine, they're not the justice department either way and if they apply the judicial decision once those abusers are caught, that's all we should ask from them.
shiftpgdn
Registrars already deal with abuse complaints (and have done so since the 90s.) GoDaddy, eNom and other large registrars are happy to suspend domains with proof of network abuse.
ted0
Thanks for the question. I can assure you that our legal and abuse team do their very best to address bad actors. In fact, they are one of the hardest working teams in the company. We put a lot of time and due diligence into each case and do not takedown domains without sufficient evidence. We believe that taking domains down without proper cause can be a slippery slope.
vorpalhex
I reported a spam domain to namecheap, including a police case file, full emails, and basically everything except a bank statement after my elderly parent was taken for a (several thousand dollar) scam.
Namecheap never resolved it or even responded back beyond the precanned message.
timdev2
> How do you feel about registering hate speech in a domain name, or someone else's trademark?
In the US, all kinds of speech is "awful but lawful", including hate speech. I don't think registrars should be policing legal speech.
If there's trademark infringement going on, there are legal processes to which the injured parties can avail themselves.
If there's more serious criminality afoot, law enforcement should generally lead.
I don't like the idea of unpopular but legal speech being scrubbed from the public internet because people object loudly to it. I think domain registrars (and other infrastructure vendors) are qualitatively different than social media properties, etc, in this regard.
timcederman
It's not a legal requirement for them (AFAIK) to make decisions on allowing someone to register a domain or not. They're a private business, so my argument is it's (probably) in their best interest to not upset their customers and partners. There are plenty of examples of limits on almost all registrars, and I was curious why they have such a hands-off stance on bulk registrations very clearly being used for illegal activities. Ted's answer gives me partial insight, but my takeaway is not enough damage, legal risk, or people complaining to say no to the money.
thefounder
Yeah, let's make the domain registries another walled garden! Then start whining when they suspend your supid game or whatever they don't like about your website/business(i.e an abusive DMCA report)
PhilosAccnting
The trouble with free speech is that it hurts people who get hit by it (e.g., scams, defamation/slander/libel, intrusive advertising).
The trouble with regulating speech is that the regulators have become a type of autocratic judge presiding over the decision.
The only cure to allow regulation AND autocracy would require some level of distribution of power. We've seen councils of industry leaders before, and this may be a good chance for an enterprising NPOer (NPOneur? NPOinator?).
proto-n
Well, do they have any obligation to investigate the purouse people want to use the domains for?
Simulacra
I’m interested to hear a response to this too instead of a sales pitch.
MiroF
I'm somewhat surprised AlibabaCloud wouldn't act on it. The others, not so much - nor do I think namecheap has an obligation to do so.
Flowsion
I've been using Namecheap for domains and domain searches since at least 2009. I haven't used any of their other services, besides their WHOISGuard offerings.
I have never had issues with them stealing domains after searches or any other problems w/ my account.
httpsterio
Same, I have a few local tld's I have to buy elsewhere but after moving away from Gandi some five years ago I haven't had the need to look back. Namecheap doesn't upsell like godaddy and it's affordable, if not the cheapest for many tld's. It's also a breeze to config dns rules with them.
sloshnmosh
Hello Ted. A bit off-topic but I was wondering if you were aware of the massive amount of malicious sites that use NameCheap?
And do you have a better way of going about flagging these sites other than the “abuse” email that shows when doing a WhoIs lookup?
ted0
Abuse@namecheap.com is indeed the best channel. Our Twitter reps are quite responsive too. The abuse team reviews every case. In some cases, it can also be effective to reach out to the "host" too.
adam1210
Does the abuse team always reply to abuse reports? I've had one open since the 5th with no activity and I'm unsure if it is just being ignored.
__lazybyte
Probably because they've got great service, I guess.
lmarcos
I would love to hear some objective arguments to use Namecheap instead of Gandi (which I'm currently using). The only reason I'm still using Gandi it's because it works and I never had any troubles with them (although my requirements are super simple). Would anyone recommend me to switch?
davchana
My experience with Namecheap, Dynadot, Godaddy, Hexonet is, in current times, I prefer Dynadot, then Namecheap, then Hexonet & never Godaddy.
I found Dynadot prices very competitive, Namecheap is not shoving ads but dns management is not easy, & is expensive. Hexonet offers way more tlds, have robust search, & retains domains in cart for months if you are not ready. Dynadot record manager is better. Hexonet is expensive.
Godaddy used to be my choice in around 2012-2016, but not any more.
Shameless plug, one of my total three blog posts is about my journey of Domains https://davinder.net/my-journey-with-domains/
ted0
We are good friends with the folks over at Dynadot!
m00x
I found namecheap to be way cheaper in most cases.
I was gonna use google's new domain product since I'm a huge Google fanboy, but it ended up being 10x pricier in some cases and the interface isn't as powerful (maybe for the better, but ymmv).
davchana
Out of maybe total 10-15 domains I own now, most are .com .net .in .us & a single .one. Com renewal at dynadot is 9, at Namecheap it is 13. transfers are same, around 9.
Net renewal is again $11/15 at Dyna/Namecheap. Transfers are same, $11.
.in renewals are $7/$12, transfers same $7.
I mostly prefers renewals because of inertia of moving nameservers and or other DNS records. I sometime transfer between namecheap and Dynadot. Most of my purchases are multi year.
*All prices rounded roughly to nearest dollar.
+1 for having same experience at Google, living in Google verse 24/7, but google.domains is expensive.
Marc_Bryan
They are a bigtime scammers. Recently was assisting a friend to get access to a domain name which was registered in godaddy. They scammed him for a couple of hundred dollars for contacting the domain owner to get a deal on the domain and eventually nothing happened. Not even a mail was sent on behalf the scammed money as we found that the domain was owned by another friend and eventually got it transferred. He confirmed that he has not received any mail from godaddy's domain buy service since the contact was under privacy protection. Another scamming method to siphon money from people.
To make it more clear, if you need a domain which is registered in godaddy and has privacy protection enabled, please do not pay money to godaddy to broker a deal on behalf of you with the existing domain owner. They take huge sum of money, do nothing and stop responding. It's like giving your hard earned money for free to these godaddy scammers. One of the worst registrars and I don't want to open another can of worms with their really really bad service (hosting, emailing and all such services!)
thiht
If the domain was a a gTLD or new gTLD (more than 2 characters on the TLD), they could get sanctioned by the ICANN, if you decided to report them.
If it was a ccTLD (2 characters on the TLD), they could also be sanctioned, depending on the rules of the extension.
The sanction can range from a (huge) fee, to a revocation of their accreditation, so it's not nothing.
snowwrestler
Why would they be sanctioned? If GoDaddy is the registrar for a domain, GoDaddy knows who the real owner is. They have to, per ICANN rules.
And if GoDaddy reaches out to that customer on behalf of another customer, they don't reveal any private information. Each customer only sees their own interaction with GoDaddy. They don't see each others' info.
thiht
The ICANN states that you must provide a way to directly contact a domain's owner. If I'm correct, the contact info must be freely available in the whole, whether it's an email address, an obfuscated email address, or a contact form on the website of the registrar.
Charging for this is really shady, but not contacting the domain owner when requested is a registrar agreement violation.
Note that it's also the responsibility of the registrar to ensure that contact information of their registrants are correct.
croes
I don't think he means sanctioned for contacting the domain owner but sanctioned for taking money without actually doing anything.
Aeolun
They would be sanctioned because they’re a bunch of scammers that take your money without providing a service?
m_km
FWIW - I remember reading about the founder of Baremetrics being able to buy Baremetrics.com via this service. Impressive because Baremetrics (which used to be on baremetrics.io) had received a $500K funding by the time he wanted to buy the .com for his company name. GoDaddy seems to have brokered the deal for $616.
Source - https://baremetrics.com/blog/scored-baremetrics-dot-com
theogravity
I'm not defending GoDaddy here and agree it's a bad service. I do want to add my own anecdote that I had an unused .com domain behind privacy protection with them and GoDaddy contacted me that someone wanted to buy it off of me.
I said yes and their process was extremely fast in the transfer and getting paid.
I use Google Domains now for my stuff.
user5994461
I hope you charged back the money.
abrichr
> To make it more clear, if you need a domain which is registered in godaddy and has privacy protection enabled, please do not pay money to godaddy to broker a deal on behalf of you with the existing domain owner.
Thanks for the heads up! Any recommendations for alternative methods for accomplishing this?
echelon
Back when I was in college, GoDaddy let my at the time close friend break into my account and steal several of my domains, including https://strategywiki.org. This was while I was on an overseas study and couldn't regularly check in. GoDaddy gave me no recourse to dispute.
He had server access because I trusted him. He wasn't supposed to have access to my domain account, and I didn't share my credentials.
I had another friend on the account because I was paying for his domain and wanted to let him administer DNS. They conspired together and were able to leverage this access and the lack of account ACLs to transfer everything away.
This was well over a decade ago.
They never invested in StrategyWiki, so it never realized the vision I had for the site. I had started to pay contributors and invest in content to bootstrap.
This guy came from the MediaWiki purge of video game guides and felt like he owned and deserved the site, despite the fact that I had created most of the original content. He was ten years older, well paid, and threatened me with a lawsuit. I was a college kid and couldn't do anything.
I learned a hard lesson. It's stuck with me.
tehwebguy
They defrauded you & violated your copyright. If the SoL hasn't passed you might want to consider filing a police report. It's possible that you could get the current registrar to give it back.
It seems like they are still violating your copyright, so you might be able to go that avenue if the SoL keeps refreshing as they keep violating it (not sure though).
GoDaddy has terminated accounts on copyright grounds before, and you could also file a civil suit if you think you could withstand the cost / pain of it now.
(That said, sometimes it's better to just walk away)
echelon
Thanks for the feedback.
This happened back in 2008? SoL has definitely lapsed.
I think it's better to just walk away. It hurt a lot at the time, but that pain has largely healed. Thinking about it doesn't cause me pain or regret anymore, just... I feel sorry for them? It doesn't change what I accomplished then. I'm still proud of what I built, and I know it could have been better with me steering it.
Since then, I've continued to build really cool stuff and not let these folks hold me back. My projects have been bigger and have impacted more people. I'm at peace, and I've got a lot to look forward to.
cure
> I'm at peace, and I've got a lot to look forward to.
Good for you! That's the healthy path.
DelightOne
Good that it didn't kill your drive! Do you still share your account details with friends or did that stop?
jefftk
That sounds really unpleasant! It's not clear to me, though, what you're saying GoDaddy did wrong?
IggleSniggle
> GoDaddy gave me no recourse to dispute. He had server access because I trusted him. He wasn't supposed to have access to my domain account, and I didn't share my credentials.
Seems pretty clear that although they had server credentials, they were never given any account credentials, but they were able to get into the account and transfer ownership anyway.
jefftk
"I had another friend on the account because I was paying for his domain and wanted to let him administer DNS. They conspired together..."
smithza
Sounds as though they weren't great friends. Sorry to hear of this.
tomhoward
This sucks and I feel for you. But the sad fact is that domain registrars have been doing this ever since domain names became big business in the 90s.
As a PSA to everyone, you should only ever use whois in a terminal window to see if a domain is available.
It's included with macOS, Windows (?), Linux or any other OS anyone's likely to use. [Edit: a reply says it's not included in Windows. It seems you can download it free here: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/whoi...]
I guess ICANN's lookup tool (https://lookup.icann.org/) is probably more trustworthy than commercially operated ones; it would be a terrible look for them to engage in this practice.
But I always feel much safer using whois in a terminal than any website that can see what I'm searching for.
xoa
I also wanted say "consider whois", but with a few more caveats. First, obviously the whois server you use matters. There is nothing magical about whois that stops GoDaddy from doing the same thing if you query whois.godaddy.com, you still need to talk to someone less likely to engage in this like going directly to InterNIC's, whois.internic.net (still I think under the US DOC, which whatever other flaws it has isn't really scrounging for change there).
>But I always feel much safer using whois in a terminal
Also as a minor FWIW, there are plenty of simple GUI's (often built-in) on whois as well so someone can just use one of those if they prefer. macOS for example still has some of the old useful utilities included for free including in this case Network Utility, though for whatever reason Apple moved them out of /Applications/Utilities and into /System/Library/CoreServices/Applications (that's also where a pile of other useful ones went).
saagarjha
Network Utility has been deprecated in macOS Big Sur.
innocenat
> It's included with macOS, Windows, Linux or any other OS anyone's likely to use.
Is it? I don't think it is included on Windows --- it is available on sysinternal, sure, but not included. (Unless something has changed from when I stopped using Windows)
andylynch
I’ve started using rdap first for this kind of thing partly because it works in browser and also because corporate firewalls like to block whois. Having a standardised response format is also really nice.
christophilus
Namecheap and Dreamhost are both top notch and would never do this.
pronoiac
> As a PSA to everyone, you should only ever use whois in a terminal window to see if a domain is available.
A month or so ago, I discovered .wang was a TLD, and I immediately brought it up with friends, and we spent some time happily and goofily brainstorming. I'm not sure about the exact count, but after dozens of queries, whois started returning errors for too many requests.
fsckboy
that's not the whois software or the whois protocol returning that, it's the configuration of the particular nameserver you're talking to; whois software/protocol allows you to specify different nameservers, so you could switch
tibu
A who is server and a domain name server are two different things. But back to the topic: who is servers in most cases have some kind of limit per a certain time frame so you don't abuse them.
mratzloff
I've never had this issue with Gandi.net. They are excellent.
tomhoward
I use them for all my registrations.
I thought I saw a complaint about them domain frontrunning once, but it surprised me and I didn't see any hard evidence, and it doesn't seem like them.
But I'll still always feel safer using whois in the terminal. I've been online too long to trust anyone on matters like this.
Besides, whois is right here in my terminal, so it's quicker anyway.
rozularen
Yes, namecheap is also sketchy had some trouble when I tried to renew a domain I bought with them then I tried to transfer it to Google domains to only have it blocked
andylynch
This is a scummy move. In the industry I work in, we call this front-running and it’s a criminal act. If the same laws applied here godaddy would be looking at a nine digit fine and jail time for whoever thought this is a good idea.
jnwatson
It is called front running in DNS too, and it is perfectly legal.
blablabla123
Honestly, I never expected anything else to happen. With all these ads, loading bars, extremely high domain prices... of course people take all measures to drive prices up. There are even worse people (that are probably/hopefully not affiliated with Godaddy etc.) that just register interesting domains to sell them at some point to someone who actually uses the domain.
Domain name registration is quite broken and should probably be quasi-regulated in a way TLS certificate registration is.
bitxbit
That gave me a chuckle. I take it you work in finance and a subtle form of front running is literally what bulge bracket trading desks do day in day out.
bhartzer
But I don't see any proof that GoDaddy is the registrant of that domain, they're just the registrar. I don't see any evidence of front-running in this case. I see it more as coincidence if anything else.
scrollaway
They've been doing it for years, it's a pretty well known thing at this point which is long past the point of needing new evidence.
PS: Use gandi.net, both for search and registration.
_verandaguy
Seconding Gandi. I spent the past year transferring my domains over (as registrations lapsed with Route53, which is a Gandi frontend with fewer features).
Their interface is very clean, their business model is no-nonsense, and I dig the managed DNSSEC.
jgowdy
This is a lie and total slander of GoDaddy. https://domaininvesting.com/godaddy-still-not-frontrunning-d... The whois information is masked, because that's what we do to protect customer privacy.
https://domaininvesting.com/godaddy-whois-records-no-more-co...
It's registered to someone in New York, not to GoDaddy.
Registrant Organization: Registrant State/Province: New York Registrant Country: US
mekster
When you recommend something, please mention what is good as well else I can't tell if it's a shill account or not.
owlninja
Can you link some prior evidence? I can believe it but is there proof? Could some other data have led another party to registering OP's domain idea?
eloff
I want to see the evidence before I believe that. I've seen nothing but speculation in this thread.
bhartzer
In this case, felons.io, there is no registrant listed, even on who.godaddy.com. So how can you definitively say that GoDaddy saw that search from the OP and registered the domain?
I'm not saying they didn't do it, but I base my opinions on facts, not speculation or "they've been doing it for years".
I'm just not seeing any evidence in the WHOIS record that GoDaddy registered that domain--it could have been one of their customers.
andylynch
It would be easy to test - query for some random domains on their site and see what happens. Which seems close to the story here.
(As a bonus - securities regulators can easily request business records, and will raid offices if they need to - it could be argued a more energetic approach like this in the tech space would not be a bad thing and I would expect travel in this direction as economies continue to rely on further on IT and if companies pull stunts like this it will be deserved).
ocdtrekkie
Happens way too often to be coincidence and can occur on domains nobody else would want. I use GoDaddy and I'm happy with their services, but I never search for a domain before I buy it.
jgowdy
That's because this is a lie and total slander of GoDaddy. https://domaininvesting.com/godaddy-still-not-frontrunning-d...
The whois information is masked, because that's what we do to protect customer privacy.
https://domaininvesting.com/godaddy-whois-records-no-more-co...
It's registered to someone in New York, not to GoDaddy.
Registrant Organization: Registrant State/Province: New York Registrant Country: US
mdorazio
I had this happen as well in the past when researching domain names for a new product.
Pro Tip: Stay the hell away from GoDaddy for everything. I've had the unfortunate task of managing a server hosted with them and it's been consistently awful (ex. I literally cannot upgrade PHP because the VPS doesn't support it and there is no upgrade path without spinning up an entirely new VPS on a different, and of course more expensive, plan). The constant upsells on garbage are basically predatory at this point, too.
cloudwizard
Whenever I talk to startups, I check their domain. If they are on GoDaddy, it means that they are technically incompetent.
hangonhn
I really dislike GoDaddy but this is not the best signal to use. A lot of startups are rather low in engineering talent early on when they're trying to find market fit and make a product. A lot of things about startups are just crap early on. People do things that they shouldn't or will have to pay for in the long run. Startups accumulate debt in many ways. Being on GoDaddy might be one of those. And if the DNS resolves just fine, many won't do anything about it except pay the yearly fees. More importantly, startups should ideally improve as they survive from year to year and not using GoDaddy is going to be pretty low on the list of things they need to fix.
marcosdumay
> A lot of startups are rather low in engineering talent early on when they're trying to find market fit and make a product.
I imagine that is the class of companies the GP is trying to avoid.
boomlinde
> A lot of startups are rather low in engineering talent early on
I.e. "technically incompetent"?
kovacs
Absolutely. You sound like someone that could really be of benefit to my latest startup. We're doing bigly things. If you're interested in finding out more drop me a line... gator3827@aol.com
qntmfred
there's kinda that ironically-lame hipster vibe to using aol.com email addresses. they're coming back in style.
simcop2387
I feel attacked. I still have my aol email, HNUSERNAME@aol.com
brlewis
I've never had an AOL email but you just inspired me to sign up for one.
BrianOnHN
Wow, samesies!
brian1999@yahoo.com
edoceo
There is another option here.
I'm technically competent but have one domain on GoDaddy for a startup I'm handling.
See, the domain we wanted was after market, and the purchase deal was done through a service that requires GD as the registrar.
So, after $12000 for the domain, we have to wait before we can transfer into our AWS.
bredren
If you can afford $12k for a domain hopefully you’re not worried about the registrar signaling to an investor.
ars
Not necessarily. I used to think that, but it's rather common for the person with the idea to just go and buy the domain on GoDaddy.
Then they'll search for technical people to implement their idea. So being hosted there is not necessarily connected with the people actually doing the work.
I think you may be used to cases where the startup idea generator and implementer is the same person. But it's not always that way.
tomjakubowski
Yeah, I joined a startup as the first engineer and inherited a GoDaddy registration, which the non-technical founder had purchased. I may have been technically incompetent but the startup's GoDaddy registration had nothing to do with it. :-)
rfrey
Please have mercy on those of us whose CEOs set up the email and Office365 accounts.
vmception
/r/gatekeeping is that way
yes, a startup registered through Route 53 is a better sign of competency on staff or in their network
but propping up domains wherever you want and changing the cname whenever you want doesn't tell you anything
jjeaff
And a lot of the time, the non-technical founder will have already registered the name and transferring can be a pain so it is sometimes delayed.
driverdan
I downvoted you because I've known many technically competent people, including startup founders, who have used GoDaddy. Many people don't realize how terrible they are.
shivekkhurana
I don't see it mentioned anywhere, but Cloudflare has as domain registry service too. They claim to not charge any markup and you pay what they have to pay.
They wrote a blog about their bad experiences with registrars in 2016 (I guess). Since then they have steadily worked to make it a reality.
https://www.cloudflare.com/products/registrar/
When I checked last, it was not possible to buy a domain at Cloudflare, but you could buy it at other providers and transfer to Cloudflare. It might also be possible to buy directly now.
All my domains are transferred to Cloudflare. Their UX is dope. It's like Apple vs Windows. Also since I use CF for DNS and Cache, it makes sense to let CF manage the domain too.
krn
> They claim to not charge any markup and you pay what they have to pay.
That's because all domains transferred to CloudFlare are required to use CloudFlare's DNS servers. It's just a different business model.
wenc
Godaddy spammed me so much and so often that I transferred my domain to porkbun.com.
It's been so problem-free that I couldn't even remember the provider's name -- I had to WHOIS my domain to figure out who was hosting it.
filmgirlcw
I use a combo of porkbun, Namecheap, Google domains (primarily all the .dev stuff from that landrush), hover (some legacy stuff) and Isnic (the Icelandic registrar for .is domains).
I like Porkbun quite a bit but sometimes Namecheap is cheaper or it’s easier to just add to that account.
I think I can proudly say I’ve never used GoDaddy as a registrar, but I’ve been with some bad ones over the last 20 years so I can’t claim full moral high ground either.
rconti
I found it interesting that Ted mentions Namecheap searching .is. I have a .is domain through Isnic (actually just renewed yesterday), and I'm using 1984 for DNS because Isnic requires a domestic NS provider.
But Ted's comment implies you can register .is through Namecheap. I wonder how/if they get around the Icelandic NS host problem.
narwally
I've been really happy with Gandi on this front. I just checked, and I haven't received an email from them since I had to confirm my email address two months ago.
monkeydust
Second gandi, not always cheapest but close enough. Good interface and support.
pottertheotter
I've been using Porkbun for a few years and have no complaints.
isaacimagine
I've been using porkbun for a while and it works great. Worth a look.
ludjer
I originally was also on Godaddy, but now I moved to Porkbun and never look back. Love their website and their name.
rammy1234
cosmotown.com does spam big time. I created a domain with name ending *cookbook.com, so much spam. I feel miserable for creating one with them.
tanatocenose
Spam
nett18
honestly, the company is amazing, they are the discord equivalent of domain hosting
tzfld
Gave up Godaddy recently, after 10 years. Overpriced ssl, old php version and no sign for upgrades and improvements.
rezonant
If you are hosting a PHP website, then just host it yourself. You can get cheaper and better hosting from one of the "economy" clouds like DigitalOcean or Linode, and nowadays TLS certs can be automated for free with LetsEncrypt. GoDaddy as a registrar is fine but the rest of its services are completely unnecessary today.
pkphilip
I have had serious issues with Godaddy as well. Absolutely horrible performance as well.
koonsolo
Me too. But the worst was that I can only contact them by calling them. What?
mitchdoogle
At least you are able to talk to a real person. I've always had good experience calling GoDaddy customer service. Many other online companies make it a very big hassle if you have an issue that's outside the scope of their FAQs.
mc32
Then they must hand select the ones they frontrun because I’ve looked up silly names to see if they did this )like a bunch of random stupid queries like bvrankdorfgherbd.com and I don’t think they squat those. Of course I’m still leery and never use them to search for my actual target domains.
Florin_Andrei
Sounds like a dictionary check of some sort.
mark-r
I have no choice, they bought out my hosting provider a year ago.
whatch
Why not to migrate to another one? There are plenty of them nowadays
mark-r
Eventually I probably will, but I'm not looking forward to the effort. I'm paid up for now so there's no rush. Luckily my domain service is with a different company.
dannydenhard
Likewise, although recently it's improved
aerovistae
Recommendations for superior alternatives? I'm an indifferent GoDaddy user but would be happy to switch to something else since I've never liked them as a company.
Lammy
Big fan of NearlyFreeSpeech.net and use them for any TLD they support, unfortunately not including some of the newer more esoteric ones like ".cool", but I'm sure that's probably in the works. I moved over from GoDaddy after GoDaddy pulled down seclists.org for Myspace with no due process: https://mashable.com/2007/01/25/myspace-godaddy/
colejohnson66
How do registrars “take down” domains? Is it a simple nameserver change that would then propagate over the next few hours?
gogopuppygogo
I love http://domains.Google
You get free email forwarding (even wildcard), free domain privacy, free website forwarding (with ssl), Google infrastructure behind all of that and the authoritative DNS they offer.
Cloudflare also offers a registrar service and its good.
buybackoff
Second this. Transferred 8 domains a months ago from GoDaddy to Google.
GD was good when I was brainstorming ideas and wanted to buy domains for peace of mind just for $1.99 or some other big promo discount. But is goes to $22+ the next year, while the normal price is $12. Google.Domains offers flat $12 + lots of value in email forwarding et al. I used to add domains as aliases to my old free GSuite subscription just for emails, which was highly inconvenient. Also redirects from e.g. .org/.info/.net to .com is small but handy thing.
Last time I registered 3 domains with GD 3 months ago there was no promo give-away prices for the first year. Registered with them by inertia. But without almost free prices to "reserve" a domain dealing with GD makes no more sense.
One good thing about GD is that domain transferring from them to Google takes couple of clicks and is pretty fast. I did not have to leave my PC during the process - couple of page refreshes.
commoner
Cloudflare Registrar offers domains at cost, which makes it the least expensive option for the TLDs it supports:
https://www.cloudflare.com/tld-policies/
If you use Google Domains, you risk losing access to the domains if Google suspends or terminates your Google account for some reason unrelated to the domains.
ourcat
Interesting. I'd never considered Google for my domains.
Any idea if the '£10/year' is every year? Or does it go up after the first year?
Also, I found it weird that they promote a .app and .dev TLD as 'More Secure'.
bitdotdash
Does Cloudflare still require you to transfer in or can you actually buy domains from them directly now? The buy and then wait 90 days to transfer in thing is a hassle.
tuananh
how's google support?
aviraldg
NameCheap (which I use) and Gandi are common recommendations on HN AFAIK.
notyourwork
I've had great experience with Gandi over the last 10 years.
Shorel
Basically everyone else is a superior alternative.
I use gandi.net because every domain includes email hosting. And France privacy laws.
axaxs
Same, but different reasons. I just like seeing 'No Bullshit' on their site, since that's basically what I'm thinking when looking for such services.
narwally
No spam either. Their UI is also really transparent. You can even edit all of your DNS records as a single plain text file.
antihero
CloudFlare (yes they are a registrar now) or Gandi are my go-tos! Never had an issue.
GoDaddy are just bad in every conceivable way.
donarb
Wow, I didn't know CF did registrations (makes sense though). And looking at their rates shows they don't markup prices. For example, most places charge $12 for a .com address. CloudFlare charges $8.03, which is their cost, they add nothing.
drummer
The same cloudflare whose ceo decided to deplatform a client not too long ago?
dublin
For DNS hosting, not just name registration, EasyDNS is far and away the best. Epik and Namecheap are also really good, and a bit cheaper, if you don't need all the services EasyDNS provides. Both EasyDNS and Epik have a strong commitment to supporting free speech (especially Epik, the DNS hoster for Gab).
NateEag
I've been using EasyDNS for years.
I'm a big fan. I've never had any issue at all, and their DNS hosting seems incredibly robust (I'm not qualified to really analyze it - there's a reason I don't do my own DNS).
adityapatadia
We use AWS Route 53 for domain registration. Works like a charm.
tnr23
They use Gandi under the hood. Using Gandi directly is a much better experience
dublin
If your servers are in AWS, then Route53 is a no-brainer - it lets you do things no other DNS host can do, and it's infinitely better plumbed into the AWS ecosystem (CloudFormation automation, etc.)
nucleardog
Can also recommend them. No race-to-the-bottom scammy upsell shit since... it's basically just there as a value-add on AWS. And you're piggy-backing on all the infrastructure/support/etc that people expect from AWS instead of a domain registrar where people are generally shopping pretty exclusively on price.
And you can expect that they're not going to turn _into_ a scammy registar at any point since, well, it's AWS.
miguelmota
I second Route 53 for domains. It’s straight to the point and clear cut unlike other registrars that try to upsell gimmicky features at every step.
vgb2k18
Dynadot.com, they've been around a long time, for me it's been the provider I always come back to.
rgbrenner
Called domain front running
4cao
I was always expecting something like this to be going on, so I'd never use any Web-based availability-checking tools but then I also tend to be a bit paranoid at times.
Yet now it turns out not only is this established practice, there is even a Wikipedia entry on it.
"It's only paranoia if they're not really after you!"
dgellow
I faced this ~6 years ago. Someone hired me for a project, at some point he told me some domain names he had in mind, and we looked them up together on Gandi, GoDaddy and other registrars to see prices and what was available. The next day he called me in shock, asking me why I bought the domain and if I'm trying to steal his company, etc (nobody else knew the names). Of course I didn't buy anything, we checked the whois and it was registered for GoDaddy... That was a quite bad experience...
tzs
The way I check prices at multiple registrars is to check the price on admrgbldflkrjanjscknadsc.<tld> instead of <name_I_want>.<tld>, where admrgbldflkrjanjscknadsc is just a bunch of random keyboard mashing.
I do not enter <name_I_want>.<tld> into any registrar until I am actually attempting to buy it from that registrar.
snapetom
This is just part of a long line of scummy practices by GoDaddy in its history. Bad PR for GoDaddy constantly popped up in tech news sites ~15 years ago, but it was never enough to stop their aggressive marketing. Still, I always wondered why anyone in tech would use them. Y'all know what they're capable of and what they do. Don't support that.
wegs
As far as I can tell, the general business model in domains is:
* Be the good guy, and establish a customer base. Provide low prices, good customer service, etc. Lose money on the razor-thin margins.
* Once you've got a ton of customers, turn evil, and milk your customer-base for all they've got. Engage in every nasty sleazeball tactic.
I've seen this cycle many times, starting with Network Solutions.
People use GoDaddy because they were the good alternative for a while.
hobofan
That must have been a long time ago, as I've only heard about them as a bad business for the past ~10 years (= how long I've been loosely involved in tech).
I think their business plan is rather: Lure in general population customers via mainstream media advertising, and don't really care about anything else (including their reputation with tech people). No one in tech that I know would touch them with a ten-foot pool. Most of the non-tech people I know are running to GoDaddy when they have to register a domain for their business/project, because they are almost the only ones doing widespread advertising.
wegs
Yes. It was a long time ago. GoDaddy was where all the tech crowd went after Network Solutions circa the year 2000. They were great! Until they weren't.
Since then, I've gone through 2 more registrars which went down the same path. I'm gradually migrating to AWS since I'm hoping they have the same incentive structure to f- me over in a few years. The way I figure, if my DNS provider is also providing cloud servers, etc. they'll have more incentive to keep me as a customer.
cnst
The amount of upselling GoDaddy does is kind of crazy; I don't know why anyone would register domains there.
They've also been implicated with a few stories around blocking DNS services for certain whole countries, voiding domains without any proper court order, etc.
nerdponx
I don't think people in the tech world use them. People in the non-tech world trying to do tech (e.g. small business owners) use them because they are the only hosting company and domain registrar with name brand recognition.
snapetom
In general you're right. Their marketing is targeted to the small business owner. However, I've met my fair share of tech people that did use them.
In one company I was at, we needed an offsite FTP server. The admin set one up on GoDaddy. I asked him wtf he was doing, and he just shrugged and said, "eh, they're easy." Shortly after joining another company, my boss, the CTO, was complaining about some huge problem he had with GoDaddy on a legacy platform. I asked why in the world did he ever use them in the first place, and he just said, "I know, I know."
dkersten
In the comments of every such cautionary tale are typically a load of proper saying “I’ve never had any problems” and thinking it could never happen to them. Until it does.
bleepblorp
Some TLD registries have policies to prevent registrars from front-running their clients by squat-registering their domain searches.
But, if you're working in a TLD where Freedom<tm> is more important than actual free markets, do your domain checks against the root servers yourself with dig +trace.
fanf2
Be warned that a domain can be registered without appearing in the DNS.
In recent years IANA has run a whois server that provides referrals to the appropriate registry, so in most cases a whois client can start by querying whois.iana.org and follow whois: or refer: lines to the right whois server without leaking too much information. (whois is still cleartext and a very crappy poorly-defined protocol...)
FreeBSD's whois mostly works by following referrals with heuristics for filling in the ghen that doesn't work; Debian's whois mostly uses a built-in database of whois servers and heuristics for finding them.
thiht
For most non-ccTLDs, that's regulated directly by the ICANN. It's pretty easy to file an ICANN complaint, FWIW.
roosgit
I never experienced this, but I did wait too long to buy a domain. After I checked if the domain was available(it was), I started building the website. A month later the domain was bought by someone who eventually made the same thing I wanted to make.
My current process for checking if a domain is available is pretty basic. I first check it in the browser. If Firefox can't find it, then I use the `whois` command. If there is no match for "example.com" then I decide if I want to buy it, before starting to build anything. If I do decide to get it, I go to Hover.com do a final check and press "Add to cart".
These days, for me it's better to spend $15 on a domain that might not get used, than to regret not buying it.
bityard
I have a habit of collecting interesting yet vaguely generic domain names and holding onto them for future projects. (Which I almost never get around to.)
CrociDB
so do I. the other day I renewed a domain I got 5 years ago and I didn't even remember what I planned.
hundchenkatze
Then why did you renew? Domain squatters suck.
XCSme
So does GoDaddy.
freedomben
Likewise! My great domain got bought up. Now I register them before I start building. I do find it gives me a little motivation.
Hover.com is my goto. Good pricing, super easy to use, free DNS (which I use for non-production stuff), and built in email services if you want and don't want to bother setting that up separately.
james_pm
Thanks! Glad you like the interface. We work hard to make it simple and also still powerful and easy to use.
james_pm
That's good advice. If you want a domain, spend the $15 and get it. I can personally guarantee Hover doesn't do anything with domain search data (I'm the PM so I would know :P). GoDaddy likely doesn't either and it was probably a coincidence that it was registered around the same time.
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searched a few days ago for felons.io, looked for unique names for simple game didn't know if I wanted it or not
guess godaddy decided for me: 1 days old Created on 2020-09-16 by GoDaddy.com, LLC
just a warning if you have a special name do not use godaddy to check if its available