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bri3d
tjohns
> I wonder what happens if you disable the e-SIM (in the US) and then a safety recall appears via software update - do dealers have any way to update control modules besides OTA?
I would assume so. Even on older cars, service techs can typically manually push firmware updates over the OBD-II / J2534 port. Rivian's OBD-II port actually hides an Ethernet signal inside of it - so the interface is certainly there.
Fun fact: You can buy an Ethernet adapter directly from Rivian here to connect to the car's internal network: https://rivianservicetools.com/Catalog/Product/TSN00535-300-...
bri3d
> Rivian's OBD-II port actually hides an Ethernet signal inside of it - so the interface is certainly there.
Nice. This is really normal now, for what it's worth - all of the European makes have moved this direction as well (DoIP over ENET). There's shockingly little documentation about Rivian online, though, probably because emissions regulation doesn't mandate it.
foresto
For those unfamiliar with DoIP:
https://automotivevehicletesting.com/vehicle-diagnostics/doi...
Hamuko
Yeah, I got a cable to update my 2017 BMW's infotainment system, and it's OBD-II to RJ45. Doesn't seem to be too new of a thing.
jjav
> Even on older cars, service techs can typically manually push firmware updates
Older cars have no concept of such updates.
Happy with my 70s and 80s and early 90s cars.
chasing0entropy
Actually almost any fuel injected vehicle can accept flash updates through the port to at least the ECU and PCM, frequently the BCU is also write enabled.
childofhedgehog
You can adjust the ECU for these 80s and 90s cars and “flash” them like anything else. There’s just a lot less settings! Not sure about the 70s but I’m sure some resto-mods also allow for this.
codazoda
This is tangential, but Kia declined to cover an engine failure, under warranty that was extended by recall, because I had not done an update.
Edit: I eventually recovered most of the cost via a settlement court.
freeopinion
Even more tangential: Kia declined to cover an engine failure, under warranty that was extended by recall because I change my own oil.
Kia's engines are known to fail predictably even within first 100K miles. They extended their warranty because of it. But then they weasel out of it unless you hire an attorney and go to war.
porknubbins
This would be a violation of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty act of 1975 which requires they show the work done directly caused the failure.
If this were a widespread policy I bet class action lawyers would be all over it without you having to pay for it.
JTbane
This makes me paranoid to buy a new car at this point. I would have to keep every single oil filter receipt and take a video of the DIY oil change.
monegator
Yeah, because you allegedly consented to them being able to update your ECUs via the mobile link in the cars when you bought the car.
As if I needed another reason to keep my 2014 skoda.
If i ever have to get a new car, i will disable telemetry, and i will buy it either without telemetry, or with the agreement that i do not consent to telemetry.
(read the fine print before getting a new car. the shit they can do that can go wrong and you have to pay for.. no wonder old cars cost as much as new ones.)
UqWBcuFx6NV4r
I assure you that “old cars costing as much as new ones” isn’t the result of the market force of people reading contractual fine print and/or freaking out about telemetry. Concentric circles of echo chambers over here.
aembleton
How do you disable telemetry in a new car. I have a 2022 Kona. It's the first car I've had with telemetry. No idea how to disable it.
stronglikedan
> do dealers have any way to update control modules besides OTA?
I get some updates OTA, but the dealer has to install some others, and when I took it there they updated it with a USB stick.
bri3d
Nice, thanks for the reply; this is surprisingly undocumented online. Presumably if they got cornered and the module under repair was updatable via this mechanism they'd have some ability to use that system, then. I wonder how charitable they will be about using it for non-recall updates for customers who have solely chosen to opt out.
Rivian are probably the only major manufacturer I've never had a chance to look at in any RE capacity and I'm getting more curious by the second. The reaction their vehicles had to the infamous bricked-infotainment update actually represented a pretty good adherence to safety guidelines (the drivetrain as well as the speedometer and warning lights on the cluster still worked in a degraded format even when the infotainment was bricked) IMO, so they do seem to apply a reasonable degree of care.
codazoda
I said this elsewhere, but I had trouble with Kia even for an issue covered by recall. Because I hadn’t had the update done, they refused to cover.
biztos
I wonder what happens if they issue a recall that you want to refuse.
What if they did the EV equivalent of Dieselgate[1]? Say it has a dangerous amount of torque or something, but you like that.
Could you just turn off the network and keep it in the desired (unsupported) state?
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal
AlotOfReading
In the US, a vehicle with an outstanding recall technically isn't roadworthy, though consumer level enforcement of this is non-existent in practice. It's mostly enforced on dealers, who can't sell a vehicle with active recalls. The only way I can imagine it mattering to a consumer is if they sold it.
Angostura
I can imagine car insurance refusing to pay out in the case of an accident
porknubbins
Doesn't being legally non roadworthy only apply to NHTSA safety recalls while there are other types of recalls for non compliance or manufacturer voluntary recalls?
rkagerer
...do dealers have any way to update control modules besides OTA?
Of course they do. It would be absolutely silly not to. And in the case of safety recalls, their duty to inform you would entail a more traditional and substantiated disclosure i.e. a letter.
traderj0e
"a lot of people don't know this; for almost any ICE car in the US, you can buy a 3-day or 1-week subscription to the dealership level diagnostic software for a somewhat reasonable fee and use it with a J2534 device"
Whoa, didn't know that. Well the caveat is finding a decent J2534 device, right? There are a lot of cheapo knockoffs. Then actually knowing how to use the software with it.
consp
My experience is J2534 support is sketchy and if you want to do the things you actually want to do you need a manufacturer approved device with an insane markup. Also the subscriptions are insanely expensive, not even close to reasonable and you need to be a company (at least you used to be with Ford last time I checked, but they accept the UK or Dutch royal residence as a valid company location so there is that...)
bri3d
I agree that J2534 is sketchy. The standard isn't very good to start with, there's usually no matrix (ie x systems * y devices) conformance testing but instead just a brief QA step done at some compliance stage in a release process, and most manufacturers don't really want to support it (preferring their in-house dongles). So, a lot of dealer tools do non-standard stuff and a "conforming" J2534 cable doesn't actually work.
Many subscriptions are painful, yes - VW brands / ODIS for example are awful to try to get as an individual and annoying as an independent shop; I'm sure the fraction of independent shops who pirate it are quite high. It's funny you mention Ford though, as they are incredibly easy to buy from in my experience, although the login/licensing backend is frequently broken.
However, there's a good cottage industry of companies reverse engineering the compatibility issues back out, and for better or worse these companies are cloned almost immediately too. I recently did key programming on a newer Ford (where Forscan can't) using a $125 VXDiag cable which I could have bought cloned for $30 and a short-term FDRS subscription that cost $50.
doodlebugging
What about using ForSCAN? It allows anyone with the software and a dongle to monitor and to update modules in the ECU AFAIK. I paid under $100 (can't remember) for a dongle and downloaded the free software and it is extremely handy working on one of my vehicles. The other two Fords I own are both pre-OBDII so there is less bullshit on them to begin with. Ford forums are full of owners who use ForSCAN to modify their vehicle's operation. Lots of hacks available.
Just do as /u/bigfatkitten suggests and get the service manuals when you purchase the vehicle.
bri3d
ForSCAN is awesome but it's an orthogonal conversation since it's a reverse engineered diagnostic tool rather than a first-party one. If we expand the conversation to that space there are tons of options with varying capabilities depending on manufacturer, including also pirating the OEM tools directly. Also worth noting that ForSCAN also doesn't _quite_ support all common operations, for example Remote Keyless Entry enrollment on newer BCMs with push-to-start needs FDRS still.
bigfatkitten
> at least you used to be with Ford last time I checked
Certainly not any time in the last 15 years that I’ve been buying IDS/FDRS and service manual access.
dylan604
What ever happened to take it to a dealer or authorized repair place to have it done? While I may be willing to take certain things apart that, the one thing in life I have resisted is any kind of monkeying with my car. There are certain things where I'm willing to accept that I took it apart and it no longer works because I bricked it, shorted something, or otherwise damaged it beyond my skill set to undo. My car is not one of them. However, I also do not want my car to be under the direct control of someone else that can decide I can no longer operate my car. If there's an update, I'll bring it in to have someone trained/responsible for that update.
brokenmachine
The perfect modern consumer/sucker...
My car needed another key. The stealership quoted me >$400 for it. I took it as a personal insult and did the research and ordered an OBD device and also discovered you can order replacement keys on aliexpress, and they'll even cut them for you with a good picture of your existing key. It was actually a fun project and very satisfying when I was able to successfully program and link the RFID chip to the ECU to start the engine.
May not be feasible with more locked-down modern cars which I wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole, but I was able to fix it for about $150, not including my time of course. But I have the OBD device to use next time now as well.
duskdozer
>May not be feasible with more locked-down modern cars which I wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole
What's your plan for the future? I have an old car, but I know it won't last forever.
magguzu
Which I read this a month ago. Mazda dealer charged me $450 for mine. I figures the entire system is propietiary, so they can charge whatever they want.
Barbing
Excellent. Sounds about what I’ve paid.
eBay key fob (new) + local locksmith, easy and no insults!
windowsrookie
There's really no reason to be scared working on your car. I have no formal training and I have never paid a shop to fix my car in my 20 years of car ownership.
The mechanical parts of a car haven't changed much in the last 25 years, and are easy to understand just by watching a few YouTube videos.
The electronics have certainly gotten more complex, but if you can understand basic computer networking and low voltage electronics it's still quite simple.
If you are interested in learning how to fix your own car, there is a great guy who runs an auto repair business on YouTube and his tagline is: "Remember folks If I can do it, you can do it."
wholinator2
Some people like messing with cars. They take the time to understand what's happening and learn the process and pitfalls. Hobbyists wiil never be as good as trained professionally but we can still get the job done. I went through the trouble to diagnose and replace a bad alternator on my civic after the battery started dying too fast. I did it cause it was fun.
The other reason i did it is because the dealership and other shops quoted me over 10 times the cost of parts, and I literally did not have the money to take them up should i have wanted to. Car maintenance is expensive, _especially_ at the dealership.
dylan604
Some how, we've changed the direction of the conversation to something you lost vs a software update to the brains of the car. I'm guessing just to make the obvious point the dealership is not the cheapest place for repair.??? This isn't change the tire or get an oil change. This is something a consumer has deliberately done to prevent the manufacture from making an OTA software update. These are the kinds of changes that I want someone available right then and there to be responsible if the update borked the car.
Cider9986
Related: Mozilla did a review of different cars for privacy:
(https://www.mozillafoundation.org/en/privacynotincluded/arti...)
>Nissan earned its second-to-last spot for collecting some of the creepiest categories of data we have ever seen. [Their privacy policy] includes your “sexual activity.” Not to be out done, Kia also mentions they can collect information about your “sex life” in their privacy policy. Oh, and six car companies say they can collect your “genetic information” or “genetic characteristics.”
pesus
Ignoring the fact that it's absolutely unhinged and bonkers to include that in the first place, I don't even understand how they could possibly ever get any information about that. Are they using LLMs to generate these policies without review? Or are there really lawyers out there who thought this was pertinent and important to include?
LamaOfRuin
Any car that can record audio in the cabin could have information about your sexual activity. Could also argue it based on location data.
Some laws require discussing very specific lists of categories of information they might have. I'm guessing this is a completionist CYA lawyer accounting for this.
henryfjordan
I was thinking all it takes is an IMU to tell if the car is a rockin'
undefined
nullc
Or malicious compliance by a true friend to privacy.
conductr
They’re just including everything to be clear that you have no privacy in this agreement, so they don’t have to think about it too much when they realize there’s something more they can collect.
saltcured
Well, there's the old cliche of someone being conceived in the back seat of their grandparent's Chevy... so a little extra DSP analysis with the seat occupancy sensors? :-)
bombcar
Now I want a hacker competition - I’m seeing utilizing the microphone, TPS, roll sensors, seat occupancy/airbag sensors …
alternatex
Legal wiggle room in case the sleepy eyes cam catches some action? Disclaimer: no idea how the tired driver sensors work.
fc417fc802
But that safety functionality doesn't require storing or transmitting the footage ...
numpad0
Apparently there are cases of passenger's jaw closing on the driver's protrusion on crash, causing injuries
mcdeltat
Just wait until genome sequencing becomes cheap enough...
culi
Makes it all the more shocking that Tesla placed last in the review. How do you even beat that?
krunck
I wonder how Slate ( https://slate.auto ) will rate when production begins? I suspect poorly as it's a Bezos property.
Barbing
If it doesn’t get a perfect score then it was overbuilt and maybe will be underpriced counting on the sale of customer data
afh1
Main reason why I will never buy an EV, and keep driving my Internet-free Honda until it dies, which will likely be after me.
jollyllama
A real car wouldn't track your sex life or your genome. They effectively stopped making real cars. We will drive the real cars and never buy fakes as long as this remains the case.
rootusrootus
nothing about this has anything to do with EVs
red369
I think the GP was talking about the fact it is hard to find an EV that is bundled with a lot of invasive software.
There's another post on this article asking for an EV that doesn't: "need internet connectivity via wifi/esim at all? I'm looking for something really simple. A chassis, four wheels, an engine, airbags. Basically my current ICE car, just electric."
I'm hoping that they get a lot of good suggestions, but I'm not holding my breath.
Spooky23
EVs and luxury cars tend to have more fancy features that enable these issues than ice or hybrid cars. That’s changing as more advanced tech filters down.
codedokode
Internet-connected cars are a national security issue when manufacturers are from one country (A) and consumer is in another country (B). For example, the President of country A might wake up in a bad mood and order to disable all A-manufactured cars in B until they reconsider the trade deal. Or, he might order to collect geolocation, plugged for charging smartphone data, audio and video recordings from cars in B belonging to military personnel.
Smart cars can record street views, location of WiFi access points and GSM towers, and this data is useful for guiding missiles and drones when GPS is being jammed.
And how can we deal with this? Inspections on import? Country-level DPI to block data exfiltration? But DPI is not perfect because there are obfuscation and VPNs. And today we have Starlinks as well, which are difficult to block. Except from banning foreign smart cars altogether, there seems to be no simple solution. Or maybe oblige the manufacturer to use local computer boards and software when importing cars?
culi
This has already happened. Mostly to Russia
> In late 2025, hundreds of Porsche vehicles in Russia became "bricked" (immobilized) because the cars’ satellite-based security systems (VTS) required continuous connectivity to European servers. Following the suspension of Porsche's operations in Russia, the cars could not "phone home" and automatically activated anti-theft immobilizers, preventing engines from starting.
> Tesla has remotely disabled Full Self-Driving (FSD) capabilities on vehicles in multiple countries—including Europe, South Korea, China, and Turkey—after detecting unauthorized "jailbreak" devices used to enable FSD in regions where it was not authorized.
> Reports from July 2024 indicate that Chinese brands have planned to or have blocked multimedia systems and other features in cars that were imported into Russia through non-authorized channels rather than through official dealers.
> American manufacturer John Deere remotely disabled advanced agricultural equipment looted by Russian forces from Ukraine, rendering the high-tech machinery useless after it was moved to Chechnya.
msh
Do it like china does with iphones. Apple sells them but icloud in china is controlled fully by a chinese company owned and operated by chinese citizens.
While this does not fully prevent backdoors and hacking it does raise the bar quite a lot.
thesuitonym
Or, here's a crazy idea: Maybe cars don't need to connect to the internet at all.
carstenhag
99.5% want to. Not something that will change.
haritha-j
The president of a country disable another country's cars to push a trade deal because he was in a bad mood?
What an utterly ludicrous and silly notion.
Is what I would've said two years ago.
I wish it was two years ago.
duskdozer
Less internet connection in cars?
fainpul
The user wants to "disable data collection". The manufacturer offers only a kill switch for all connectivity, with all the unwanted effects (which they helpfully list).
I've seen this pattern before. It's a lame cop-out. "Of course you can do that, but you'll have to accept all these negative consequences. There's nothing we can do about it. You brought this onto yourself."
b3lvedere
Exactly. It's extremely annoying.
throwaway132448
Google loves this pattern. It's what pushed me away from them.
thomas_viaelo
[flagged]
jryio
Reminds me of Zed's setting { "disable_ai": true } [1]
Glad it's an option be it for regulatory compliance, security, privacy, or any combination of the three.
Latty
Firefox also has a setting like this, although I think it's even nicer in that it makes everything (current and future) AI default to opt-out, but still lets you opt in to specific use cases if you want.
troad
Firefox took an awfully long time to get that global setting. It was clear that Mozilla Corp hoped they might be able to push AI services as a revenue generator, before the AI pushback.
giancarlostoro
Zed is one of the best editors I've ever seen, I always worried the mention of AI would put off people who are missing out on a truly amazing editor.
ModernMech
The thing that really puts people off about Zed is "VC-funded"
nathanmills
Hacker News is not for you then.
sieabahlpark
[dead]
z3c0
It did, verifiably here. Based on their own marketing, I thought it an alternative to Codex, not Codium.
Knowledge of this setting has shifted my perspective considerably.
edit: not enough to ditch Sublime, however.
SamuelAdams
VSCode has this too: chat.disableAIFeatures
Sources:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46501220
https://code.visualstudio.com/updates/v1_104#_hide-and-disab...
retired
First thing I do on rental cars is pull out any devices plugged into the OBD port and follow the wiring for a bit to see if the port is duplicated. I'll plug it back in when they ask for it, that way I know it is not a bad actor at play.
Second thing is to do a factory reset on the infotainment and press "deny" on anything.
Third thing is to use a USB sanitizer so plugging in the USB-port doesn't sync any of my data with the car or initiate a pairing.
Final thing is to check tire pressure, unrelated to above but 9 out of 10 times the tire pressure on rental cars is incorrect. I have a little pen tester in my travel kit.
jamilbk
I remember yanking out the onstar unit in my 2015 silverado to physically disconnect the cell antenna. This was (is?) the only practical way to disable cellular in that vehicle.
Kudos to Rivian for making this a supported user privacy feature.
cj
As someone who got into a rollover accident which ended with my car upside down on a freeway, hearing only the onstar person talking to me while half conscious, this is sad.
I do distinctely remember strongly disliking the user agreement I signed for the "internet connected" features of the car when I bought it. 100% rubbed me the wrong way and I couldn't' find a way to opt out, and I wasn't so motivated to physically remove it from my new car. Thankfully.
Shouldn't have to trade privacy for safety.
yason
There's absolutely no reason an emergency e-call system needs to connect via the car systems such as infotainment. It could be a standalone module that does its own thing regardless of whether the car is permanently disconnected from everywhere. Probably should too, given its nature. And not just could: there are aftermarket e-call systems that do not integrate beyond requiring 12V supply.
This is how cars used to be made. Features were standalone modules: there could be some bus traffic about optional data (wiper module with rain sensor could broadcast that it's raining and body control module could hear that and could be configured to close windows when raining) but they weren't strictly integrated in any meaningful capacity. You could change the radio unit to whatever you liked: if you were lucky you could get one that can actually understand what the other modules in the car were saying and show some non-enterntainment info on its screen as well. Navigation used to be a standalone system that had GPS receiver but nothing else in the car couldn't necessarily tap into the location data.
SUre, it meant some more wires and maybe the features had disconnects because they weren't aware of each other that much but all in all that was a good thing. It kept everything simple, isolated and repairable. Now because of more integration the modules need to know who they're talking to which leads to bizarre things like having to code in new headlights and pair them with other modules or they won't be recognized and just stay off.
nancyminusone
>Shouldn't have to trade privacy for safety.
You shouldn't have to, and yet...
https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2026/01/...
karlgkk
> As someone who got into a rollover accident which ended with my car upside down on a freeway, hearing only the onstar person talking to me while half conscious, this is sad.
My phone does this now. Most phones do it now.
xp84
Maybe in theory, but I trust Apple to detect a crash correctly about as far as I can throw my iPhone without breaking its glass back or front.
This is the company whose flagship voice assistant, in 2026, can’t tell the intended recipient in a sentence like “Text Bob Mary signed the deal.” And if my phone happens to be thrown into the back of the car by the crash, I doubt anyone will be able to hear me.
Not to mention that OnStar has operators who talk to first responders. the cell phone thing will just call 911 and hope for the best.
I pay for OnStar, and think it’s worth it.
Barbing
Stress test your mounts!
reaperducer
My phone does this now. Most phones do it now.
Only if it hasn't been crushed, damaged, or otherwise flung out of the vehicle that crashed so violently that it's actually upside down, as noted in the original comment.
rurp
Saying you need to physically take the car into them, unless you're in a country that requires them to provide the option, and disabling other features out of spite isn't what I would call a supported user privacy feature.
dlenski
> Kudos to Rivian for making this a supported user privacy feature.
Same. This is the first thing that I've ever read that makes me think I might be willing to buy a modern vehicle.
Brian_K_White
Similar I got a new 2025 4runner last summer and...
A: never once installed the app or registered an account, which flummoxxed the salesman so much he argued with me for 10 minutes trying to say that I had to set up the app to even take delivery, even though I paid cash in full. He even cried to mama (the manager) to find out what to do about this impossible situation. In the end, of course you do not actually need to install the app, even temporarily just for a one-time setup, or even register an account. But MAN do they want you to.
B: Within a few weeks found that someone makes a kit that lets you completely disconnect the telemetry & internet functionality module while providing some pass-through connections that normally go through that box.
Apparently in this case all the bad stuff is conveniently in one box you can disconnect, and still have normal bluetooth for android auto, apple car play, or plain bluetooth headset & media. So still have gps & media on the console stcreen. I can only assume that this won't stay so convenient. They could have anything require anything else any time they want.
They do offer an official way to disable all internet features (remote start from your phone from any distance, remote vehicle monitor, tracking/shutdown, etc), but all that does is disable the useful functions for you, while not disabling any of the functions they use for themselves. It's still actively logging and uploading data, and they still have the ability to remotely track and even disable the vehicle.
I've been to the dealer (different from purchase) once for a free oil change and they didn't say anything. So idk if they even tried to do any updates, or they have some other way to do it or what.
nullc
They've fixed that in later models, disconnecting the module disables the dash now.
But don't worry, the FTC is out to protect you. Their settlement with GM says that can only sell your name attached to zipcode resolution location data and only sell your precise location trace attached to an opaque ID rather than your name.
willis936
I've reliably disconnected Toyotas and VWs by pulling the cell antenna connections from the telematics modules in the dash. The GPS antenna is separate and still aids in carplay navigation.
slumberlust
How did you confirm this? I believe you think you did it, but is there any way to confirm its not still sending via another module?
nullc
Makes it less likely to connect presumably, but at least on some cars it will sometimes, rarely manage to get out-- and of course it'll upload its queued data if it can. (In particular I know of someone where a GM car managed to get data onto the Lexis Nexis report with the antenna disconnected-- now with their FTC settlement its harder to tell if its still getting through, unfortunately).
Or if you take it in for service and they plug the antenna in. Better than nothing, but if your privacy and security depends on not being constantly tracked it's not good enough.
janice1999
Disabling internet connectivity disables lane keeping assistance. I wonder if this is a dark pattern to punish users who opt out or because they feel they need reports of crashes ahead to do it safely.
bri3d
I believe the "advanced" LKAS on Rivian only works on highways and relies on an "up to date" geofencing database, so that's the first-order technical reason. And I'm sure they don't exactly prioritize fixing or altering that behavior for the other reason.
mingus88
This is a safety issue. I don’t think there is a “fix” for offline lane assistance that they are sitting on do avoid people from disabling telemetry
The gen 1 system uses cameras primarily. It’s not awesome lidar or AI. It needs up to date road information.
I’ve been driving down I-5, a major interstate and had it turn off on me, presumably because I hit a dead spot, as conditions were fine and I5 is one of the most popular routes there is.
I’m fine with all of this. I prefer that it hand back control to me rather than make me another statistic like Tesla’s system.
ehnto
I just can't imagine relying on something like that for my safety. I have worked on GPS and IoT solutions in related spaces and the comms networks aren't reliable, and actual control of a consumer vehicle is about the last thing I would ever want relying on it.
I think if I might be critical, the idea that the car graciously hands over control to you at a moment you are capable of catching might be a bit of a blind spot. The car could lose one of the signals it needs at an inopportune time and you would need a split second and correct emergency reaction to not spear off the road or collide with something. The physics of cars at highway speeds is awe inspiring, problems happen really, really fast.
bri3d
Sure; I think that's a reasonable take too. I have no idea what their TTL requirements are or how frequently they update the ADAS database; if they're on the order of real-time, this seems like a complete technical constraint, if they're on a longer time horizon they might be able to offer manual offline databases.
I'm very curious at what level the restrictions operate. With every other manufacturer I've looked at, they're extremely coarse-grained; it's more like "is there a known long-time-horizon hazard in this area that is known to impair the system" than a "we mapped every lane and you need a database." I wonder if your I5 issue was a weeks or months-old construction area, for example. I haven't looked at Rivian much, though, and it could be totally different or extremely fine grained, there's no reason to suggest otherwise either.
dghlsakjg
Can LIDAR see lane markings? I would have thought that was computer vision only.
thescriptkiddie
how would that even work? even if you could generate accurate maps of lane markings, non-differential gps in not accurate enough
bri3d
I think it's a coarse-grained "this highway has been deemed non-anomalous enough to allow the vision systems to engage," not a fine-grained "we mapped every lane marking."
tencentshill
I understand how it could disable some features. Hyundai has a GPS-assisted database of highways that are approved for enhanced driver assist (HDA2).
janice1999
I assume by lane keeping assistance they mean the more basic camera based system to warn and potentially correct drivers if they drift over a line without indicating. It makes sense it could also be geofenced to limit it to highways.
subscribed
I think this is exactly how it works (also offline in my Hyundai).
yason
Lane keeping is often hard to disable and you have to do it each and every drive, so getting that off permanently and putting the car offline then that is an unexpected bonus. Probably the same also applies for the speed limit beeper that partially relies on GPS maps. Taping over the front camera also works.
retired
On an enthusiast forum someone made a little circuit board that plugs into the control panel of the steering wheel. When you get in the car, you press one button, and that simulates the button press sequence required to turn off the lane keep assist, speed warning and multiple other systems.
ezfe
Toyota advanced LKA (called Traffic Jam Assist) requires mapping subscription to be active as well
ReptileMan
So you disable both internet and the most annoying feature after touchscreens and start stop. Double win.
encom
>disables lane keeping assistance
That is a desirable outcome.
I have driven about half a dozen vehicles with this feature, and it has been annoying 100% of the time, and never helpful at all. In the company van I drive (Citroën Berlingo) I have to disable it every time I start the car. The lane keeping gets confused all the time by snow or dirt or when merging onto the motorway, or fucking background radiation - I dunno. It always shocks me when it pulls on the steering wheel. This crap should be forbidden. In the same car I also have to disable the start-stop system so as not to destroy the engine. Aside from that it's a nice enough van for a diesel, but I've been ruined by electrics.
In my own car (Nissan Leaf 2021), it stays disabled. But then it shows me a lawyer screen on every start asking me to consent to handing over my first born son etc.
Imagine if proper EV's had been invented in 2005 - we would have had some awesome cars.
Terr_
My car from ~2020 has an intermediate "low" setting which I've been pretty happy with. The default "high" is a frustrating distraction though, jarringly affecting the wheel even when I'm very-well-aware of what's going on and have my own plans for the curves ahead.
jimnotgym
I don't know if it is because I'm neurodivergent, but most driving aids are incredibly distracting for me. I'm terrified of anything interfering with my steering like lane keeping. Flashed up speed warnings, and especially anything that beeps are super distracting. I drive with GPS on silent, now the car wants to override that.
Result, I drive a 2012 car.
subscribed
Well, I love my lane assistance (Hyundai). If I didn't want it though, it's a very easy (and "sticky") toggle in settings.
ErroneousBosh
Why? What do you love about it?
traderj0e
2005 was peak car interior
ErroneousBosh
> Disabling internet connectivity disables lane keeping assistance
Good. Lane Keeping Assist should be illegal.
deadbabe
If you need lane keeping assistance you should just accept you need internet connectivity at all times like wtf cars didn’t always have that just drive straight.
subscribed
LOL, you guys really read quite funny if that's the way you decide to comment on that.
nloomans
Website redirects to the regional homepage instead of showing the actual article. I don't get why this is still a thing.
Sophira
In the UK, this URL simply redirects to the UK version of the homepage, sadly.
For anyone in the same situation, https://web.archive.org/web/20260430234304/https://rivian.co... leads to the correct page.
girvo
Amusingly, my Cupra Born has all its connectivity disabled... because Cupra Australia just didn't want to bring it to this country. Not a bad thing really, aside from the annoying red notification dot telling me I have no signal!
cantalopes
Why cant users disable connectivity elsewhere other thsn canada? People are supposed to call their car dealer each time after car update before turning it off again? Seems to be a cheap pr stunt to portray canadian regulation in attempt to shed good light on rivian
darknavi
The same reason Windows only respects users choices in Europe, they make more money with the settings elsewhere in the world and will only change unless regulated.
> In the EEA, Windows will always use customers’ configured app default settings for link and file types, including industry standard browser link types (http, https).
https://blogs.windows.com/windows-insider/2023/11/16/preview...
RevEng
I don't know for certain, but likely because they are required to. There are lots of other examples where companies will only abide by regulations in places where it's required rather than applying it generally. A common example in Canada is with things like lotteries, coupons, or returns - many things exempt Quebec because it's not allowed there, but the companies still place that burden on everyone else they can.
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> limit or disable certain functionality in the vehicle: ... over-the-air updates, which provide new ... safety enhancements ...
I wonder what happens if you disable the e-SIM (in the US) and then a safety recall appears via software update - do dealers have any way to update control modules besides OTA?
This is a huge unresolved issue with EVs IMO; ICE cars are required to provide emissions-relevant updates over software which can operate using a J2534 passthrough device, which effectively means powertrain modules have to allow (potentially signed) updates over CAN using software that can be obtained by an end user (a lot of people don't know this; for almost any ICE car in the US, you can buy a 3-day or 1-week subscription to the dealership level diagnostic software for a somewhat reasonable fee and use it with a J2534 device).
But for EVs, there's no such rule and as far as I can tell it's entirely a gray area in the US now; the NHTSA require a "remedy" for recalls but nobody seems to have pushed back to determine whether OTA is truly a remedy. The traditional autos all offer dealerships as a backup option, but Tesla and Rivian have several recalls with only OTA remedies already. This seems sketchy.