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ZeroGravitas
sigmoid10
No surprises here. China is already the biggest car market, both by production and units sold. And the gap is substantial. The US and EU automotive industries are getting left in the dust. A powerful industrial base and an authoritarian regime that is not completely in the dying fossil industry's pocket seem to be a winning combination this century. If anything stops them, it will be the long term consequences of the one child policy, which turbocharged the usual developed country population issues.
lschueller
Meanwhile in Germany: Let's stick to combustion engines for at least 10 more years with 500km range and a multiple of energy and maintenance costs...
objclxt
> Meanwhile in Germany: Let's stick to combustion engines for at least 10 more years with 500km range and a multiple of energy and maintenance costs...
BMW is heavily invested in Neue Klasse[1], the iX3 has a long waiting list and a 800KM range.
lschueller
Good for BMW, isn't it? According to my excel sheet 800km range is still less than 1000km range, for double, triple the price compared to a Byd?!
breve
The range estimates use different test procedures. BMW's quoted range uses the WLTP test procedure. China's CLTC test procedure is much more generous.
As noted in the article:
> "The Seal 08’s claimed 1,000+ km CLTC range translates to roughly 620+ miles — though real-world figures under EPA or WLTP testing would be lower. For reference, the recently updated Mercedes-Benz EQS 450+ claims 926 km under WLTP (575 miles) with its new 800V architecture and 118 kWh battery."
To compare the range properly you need to do a real world test of the vehicles on the same circuit in the same conditions.
fragmede
What's your spreadsheet's coefficient for emotions like fun? BMW doesn't sell cars so much as they sell a brand. It's an emotional play for buyers to need "The Ultimate Driving Machine™."
lostlogin
Why does it have to be so massive?
But who am I kidding? I’m not their target audience.
httpz
Their design department needs an intervention
tim333
There's something to be said for letting the market decide. Something like a carbon tax would probably be a more economically effective way of dealing with CO2 than arbitrarily choosing this of that industry as a winner which hasn't exactly worked in terms of controlling carbon emissions. I think they are up about 80% since people started going on about them.
I'm an example of someone who doesn't fit the obvious ban combustion engine model. I own a German combustion engine car but don't use it much as I mostly get around by ebike + train.
Tax carbon rather than dictating which technology! My biggest emissions are probably gas heating and flights both of which have approx 0% tax so forcing me to get an electric car isn't really going to fix that. I'm not really a climate doomer but if you are, current policies are a good way to get doom.
ZeroGravitas
Germany has a carbon tax* on fuel for cars. It will merge with the EU scheme when that expands to this sector and home heating in 2027.
And that EU scheme already covers aviation, though it's phased in with exemptions etc. so doesn't cover everything.
*Technically an emission trading scheme but these are basically equivalent to carbon taxes in effect.
bjohnson225
At this point it seems EV economics will make the EU government mandates irrelevant. Electric cars will be cheaper to buy and cheaper to run. The only remaining question is how quickly rapid charging infra will be deployed which will make electric the default choice even for those of us who cannot charge at home.
ZeroGravitas
The point of the mandates is to ensure that the EU car companies survive.
It's basic game theory, you all commit to ramping up delivery of EVs at the same time because one of you could benefit in the short term if you defect, so without the law everyone does so and everyone loses.
SideburnsOfDoom
> Electric cars will be cheaper to buy and cheaper to run.
Yes they will be, some time around now or the recent past, depending on country.
Source:
https://dmnews.co.uk/electric-cars-are-now-officially-cheape...
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2026/apr/17/new-uk-e...
fragmede
High prices for electricity in Europe means that's not necessarily the case. If the cost of a tank of gasoline is the same as, or even cheaper, than an equivalent charge of the battery pack, how many people are going to be convinced to go electric?
neya
I thought EV's also have maintenance costs and energy costs?
pjc50
Much less so than combustion engines, unless you're not able to charge at home.
lpcvoid
My EV gets charged by energy made in Germany and EU, that's the difference.
spwa4
(0.33 to .35 euro per kwh, .4 on an old contract, double the price in France or US, and more than legendarily expensive Switzerland. Still way cheaper than the same range in gas btw)
Markoff
where are the battery materials from?
emil-lp
Both maintenance and charging are negligible costs.
a96
Yes. Even with the ludicrous subsidies and support from governments, ICEs are a nightmare to feed and maintain. (And inefficient and massively polluting.)
subscribed
How much does the major service cost, if we remember it includes engine and the entire transmission?
What other maintenance costs can you think of?
And how much does it cost to drive 500 miles in the electric car charged at £0.08/kWh vs diesel at 50 mpg (£1.91/L) or petrol car at 35 mpg (£1.58/L)?
neya
So, one of the reasons I asked is because the motors used in EV's also are usually embedded inside transmissions which require regular oil changes (like any gearbox) and the motor itself needs to be serviced every x years - or even be replaced. These motors house Neodymium magnets - which is a rare earth metal. Although, some designs like in the earlier Teslas used coils for both the stator and the rotor using a switched reluctance design.
Plus, you have to service the steering column, wheels, bearings, etc. Not saying these are equal to ICE costs - definitely not. I just thought even EVs had to get regular maintenance as they are fundamentally the same apart from the drivetrain itself.
SideburnsOfDoom
There are the words "a multiple of" in the parent post, just before the words "energy and maintenance costs"
Which means that ICE Vehicle energy and maintenance costs are a multiple of (i.e. several times that of) EV energy and maintenance costs.
And so EV energy and maintenance costs are a fraction of the ICE energy and maintenance costs.
You can debate this assertion if you like, but first you have to read it successfully.
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neya
> but first you have to read it successfully.
1/2 * x
What do you think 1/2 here is? Stick to doom.
defrost
The multiplication factor can't be a third?
khriss
China seems to be either leaving the US behind, or within striking distance in every single technology for the future.
Looking back, I wonder if we will see this period as similar to what the 1957 Suez crisis did to the UK.
Edit: Spelling
librasteve
yeah … this is my take - Trump has pushed me to get an EV next time, and BYD is already killing it in UK. Only hope for continued EU car industry is to get the UK back in the single market (haha).
cjs_ac
The 400 km in 5 minutes figure relies on finding a charger that can consistently deliver 1 MW; a prominent UK YouTuber just reported being unable to find a public charger that can consistently exceed 100 kW in all the years he's been testing electric cars.
As much as I think that electric cars are the future - and my next car will be one - there's a lot of infrastructure that needs to be put in place and improved before they can reach their advertised potential, just as there was for petroleum-powered cars.
plqbfbv
I can't speak for the UK, but with my Model 3 2019 I was charging <10% to 30% @ 250kW (max the car supports) for a good 5+m in Switzerland and Italy already 4 years ago (both at Tesla Superchargers V3 and Ionity 350kW public chargers).
Of course the charger is not the only limiting factor, the grid also needs to support it. If you're in a small town with no big shops/industry, you're way less likely to have 1+MW cables installed, there was never a need for such peak capacity before.
ZeroGravitas
The word "consistently" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here, and most of the limiting will be on the car side for average cars and average chargers.
e.g. a Hyundai Ioniq 5 might charge at above 200kW up to around 45% peaking around 260kW on a 300kW charger then taper down to about 50kW at 80% full.
But that's a relatively good car for charging, many others won't push the older, lower spec chargers that are only advertising 100-150kW to their max (which might actually be from a low of 90 to a high of 175 on the charger side).
Some chargers display whether the car or the charger is limiting the rate as people often inaccurately blame the charger.
This new BYD car, on a standard high speed charger is likely to flatline the existing 350kW chargers up to near 80% in a similar way to how the Ioniq does that on older 150kW chargers.
xdex
I don’t doubt that’s true in the UK and Europe but this is a Chinese company at a Chinese car expo so I’d imagine that these chargers are popping up all over China.
Maybe one day the rest of the world will catch up?
cjs_ac
Exporting their cars to Europe, Australia and New Zealand is a big part of BYD's business model; charging availability in those markets is not a fringe issue for them.
There are more than fifty EV marques competing for market share in China, and as per recent FT reporting, the Chinese government continues to subsidise the formation of new EV manufacturers. These companies have no option other than to be export-led businesses.
adrian_b
For now, most of the 1-MW chargers are located in China, where they have been installed during the last half of year or so.
Therefore there is no wonder that none could be found in UK.
Because BYD and other companies have announced plans to sell such cars in the EU, I assume that they will also promote the installation of such chargers wherever they export their cars.
But I would expect that some years will pass until such chargers could become available everywhere.
zelos
That 100kW claim seems pretty unlikely, or maybe it's UK only? Driving long distance in Europe I see the max ~230kW charging of the car everywhere apart from the rare times the charger's broken.
Actually, although UK provision is pretty bad, I got 235kW sustained last week in some small charging station off the M4.
swiftcoder
I can't wait till they stuff the same battery in a down-market car. Would really like to see a >750km contender in the €30k range one of these days
fernie
As a person that's been all electric since 2019, I've always been curious why everyone wants this.
It's really rare for me to drive 700km in one day. What kind of commute do you have?
swiftcoder
It's not really about driving 700km (although on a road trip that would be nice) - it's about not having to think twice about driving 200km when you forgot to plug the car in last night, and it's only at 60% charge.
I have a Niro with an on-paper 460km range. If I don't habitually want to operate it outside of the 20-80% charge range, we're playing with about ~170km of range in the colder months. I live 50km from the city, so a roundtrip to a big box store costs >100km. That's not a margin where I get to not think about range.
aurareturn
$42,000 for 1,000KM of range and 684hp. That's just ridiculously a good deal.
swiftcoder
Guessing the price is going to be 50% higher when it comes to market in the EU, and even so it'll still be half the price of it's only real competition in that range class
zelos
I've avoided Chinese EVs for political reasons, but it's getting harder. After the lease on my Kia EV6 ends in 6 months I can either upgrade to the new model with a whole 10% more range, or switch to one of the European brands which mostly have around half the charging speed.
The Mercedes CLA seems to be the only model that's significantly better and not totally crazy money.
a96
Yep. Even the previous Seal was a very tempting option. If only it wasn't a privacy game over. I've also eyed the CLA, but it seems over the top. Too bad KiaHyundai is mostly doing van sized things.
overflowy
Not just a ridiculously good deal, but a good deal to Seal! (sorry, I couldn't help myself)
ranguna
How much will it cost in Europe and how did they manage to fit so much energy into their battery pack?
pjc50
Latter question: it's 92kWh, which is not unreasonable even if it's twice what some entry level cars are being sold with.
Deep dive on the pack: https://www.batterydesign.net/byd-blade-2-0-compared-to-1-0/ ; it seems they've done some good old fashioned mechanical engineering to minimize the "not cells" part of the battery while keeping the liquid cooling effective.
Cost in Europe: based on past cars .. maybe 50-100% more? Higher taxes AND higher margins.
I can find the previous Seal at £46k for the premium spec version (390kW / 83kWh): https://www.arnoldclark.com/new-cars/byd/seal/390kw-excellen... , or you can lease it for £321. UK leasing seems to be the last place it's possible to get an actual beat the market deal, which is odd.
Markoff
as usual double to triple the Chinese price for EVs
maxglute
The real news is BYD is making blade2, and flash charging (10m - 97%) standard going forward, i.e. all models all price points will recharge as fast as filling gas tank. The flash charging network supposedly also open to all compatible vehicles (probably some sort of titration on older batteries). Once blade2 proliferate, flash charging throughput = can convert many small lots, i.e. convenience stores into recharge stations like gas stations. I think flash charging infra basically just has a fuckload of old blade batteries drip charging from existing electric infra, so no need for major grid overhaul = the station in box charging infra almost anywhere (i.e. if grid supports heavy industrial AC, it can support flash cabinets) is going to be as big as charging time.
E: @10m charge per car, the system basically is scaled to typical gas tank up transaction times, i.e. 10-12m per car. The battery storage sized to survive rush hour throughput then charge off grid or roof solar during lull. Basically parity with gas infra. The plan is also to second life old batteries, i.e. 60-70% capacity blade1s... lots of 1st gen bats retiring, storage is going to be essentially "free" via upcycling. AKA entire battery circular economy PRC mandated recently. The last part is what makes BYD so cracked, IIRC central gov legislated extended producer responsibility recently, i.e. BYD (largest battery producer) legally had to take back and recycle batteries - cradle to grave responsibility, instead of billions in logistics for storing/recycling/shredding they're just slapping them in flash stations to increase deprecation cycle.
pjc50
I think this is underestimating just how much 1MW is, even allowing for the fractional duty cycle of time spent changing over who's using the charging station. 1MW of 500W solar panels is 2000 panels, for example. It's probably going to be reserved for highway stations that are also conveniently located near substations.
Although you're now making me wonder at what point it becomes more economical to ship electricity in batteries rather than do lengthy, expensive, and annoyingly controversial grid upgrades.
adrian_b
The 1-MW chargers have internal batteries, so they can pull a much lower average power from the electrical grid.
The connection to the electrical grid of a charging station is not dimensioned based on the charging times. It is dimensioned based on the number of cars that must be charged during a given time interval at that location (assuming a certain average charging energy).
So regardless if fast chargers or slow chargers are used, what matters is how many electric cars are used in a region and how much they travel each day.
Fast chargers can matter only indirectly, if their presence will convince more of the car users to switch to EVs, requiring the electrical power suppliers to take into account this increased consumption.
close04
> The 1-MW chargers have internal batteries, so they can pull a much lower average power from the electrical grid.
We go back to what I was saying earlier [0], you'll need a lot of local storage to keep that charger running at full speed without breaking the back of the distribution grid. That comes on top of the solid grid capacity at every one of those many small parking lots.
One stall alone needs 1MW maybe equally split between the grid and the local battery, for probably 50-70kWh per car. Just 3-4 of these cars charging in a parking lot would mean a constant multi-MW pull from the grid on top of the battery that also needs to be recharged from somewhere. To guarantee that you lower that average you need to have enough local storage.
The technology exists, it works really well for large dedicated charging spots. The problem is the cost of scaling when you have to deal with lots of small plots (what OP proposed). A 1kW installation with 2-3kWh battery storage is the size of a small container and we've had them for years. Why do you think every small parking lot hasn't been equipped with one?
> requiring the electrical power suppliers to take into account this increased consumption
This doesn't scale like software. Adding production is comparatively easy, adding distribution capacity isn't. It needs a lot of equipment that's not really available [1], and a lot of construction work to expand the grid capacity.
maxglute
I posted math in another comment, maybe wildly off. It's 1500 kWh of battery from 30 old blade1s / upcycled byd packs, + 600kWh of grid power (typical industrial i.e. no need for major grid changes) + 30 kWh of solar roof (i.e. minor contribution). Scaled for 3300kWh for 2-3 hour morning/afternoon rush, about 100kwH per car. 100-150 cars per day like typical gas pump. The key point is the battery storage with upcycled old batteries (i.e. 0 capex) is CHEAP and space efficient, and since storage basically free, they can simply stack more packs in future to grow buffer if required. Of course assuming long term proven safety, i.e. no laws mandating burial. Otherwise storage is couple parking spots big x 2m high. Can stack to 4-6m... but I think regulatory will probably prevent it from any higher. TLDR basically system scaled/designed to use typical grid power + size battery buffer + charging speed for gas station parity.
yetihehe
Hmm, "Never underestimate a shipping container sized battery hauling down a highway"?
close04
Flash charging is 1MW - 1000V, 1000A. That peak power has to be provided by the grid or some energy storage that can be replenished in time for the next cars. We need cheap and smallish batteries (because burying is not always an option) to be able to install that much storage and peak power output in the MW/MWh range all over the place. We'll eventually have this but we might be talking in decades rather than years.
Or, why not, maybe we need fewer cars.
maxglute
I think flash charging infra math is:
1500 kWh battery storage + 600kW grid draw + 30kW solar canopy (if weather allows).
@10m per car across 2 cables = ~36 cars over 3 hour rush hour throughput (comparable to 2 gas pump) = need ~4000 kWh, 1500 kWh from battery 1800 kWh from grid = 3300 kWh. This worst case all cars 0-97% charge, realistically mixture so 3300 kWh should cover typical peak scenarios. Then midday lull for grid to refill batteries for evening rush, after again overnight charge from grid. Basically 1x2cable station can service 100-150 cars/day comparable to high-density gas pump.
In terms of physical size, battery storage smaller than gas in terms of physical infra = doesn't need to be underground (assuming long term blade safety ensured). Gas needs storage for multiple days / week so need to scale underground tank accordingly. 1500kWh scaled for rush hour = battery storage (recycled) realistically ~30 recycled blade1s slapped into racks, a couple parking spaces worth, and can be stacked vertically. It's much more space efficient (and cost efficient) than gas.
ZeroGravitas
I don't think it's that big a deal.
Even older supercharger sites in crumbling post-collapse USA are 1MW (4x 250KW stalls).
I think Tesla has an off grid(!) supercharger site in California with 168x 500kW peak v4 chargers.
It seems pretty doable to just spread the chargers around to meet the same throughput without causing any hot spots on the grid. The cars already have internet connected navigation systems that can react to how busy a site is and direct you to the next one.
close04
>> convert many small lots, i.e. convenience stores into recharge stations like gas stations
> 1500 kWh battery storage + 600kW grid draw + 30kW solar canopy
The math doesn't work for converting "many small lots" unless you get creative about what "many" and "small" mean. Every one of those lots needs the 1500 kWh battery storage + 600kW grid draw + 30kW solar installation. It's not a problem of whether the technology exists, but scaling it in an economically feasible manner.
mekdoonggi
My understanding from watching a video on this last night, the same Blade 2.0 cells going into the cars are going into the charging stations. And it just so happens that BYD is massively scaling the manufacturing of these.
adrian_b
The already existing 1 MW chargers have internal batteries, so they do not need from the grid the peak power, but only the average power.
The average power is lower, as there are idle times between cars. Moreover, in the beginning only a few cars would be able to charge at 1 MW, so the average power will be even lower, allowing a later upgrade of the connection to the electrical grid, when fast-charging cars would become more frequent and when there would also be more EV owners, so that more cars would have to be charged per day.
danielsamuels
1MW/800V architecture = 1250A
adrian_b
The 1 MW chargers installed until now (in China) are 1000 V / 1000 A.
So the charging voltage has been increased, to allow a less increase in the charging current.
I assume that the car negotiates with the charger the charging voltage and the maximum charging current, and then the charging proceeds at the limits established by the least capable of the two.
Rekindle8090
[dead]
nhinck2
Can you just add power from the front and rear wheels like that?
pjc50
I don't see why not, it's all contributing to acceleration, although it's going to be rough on the tyres.
swiftcoder
And hey, even fairly modest EVs are rough on tyres, so no one is going to mind that tradeoff if they are looking for sporty acceleration
cyberax
I think the tyre problem is not really a thing. EVs use synchronized motors and traction control to avoid extra wear due to uneven torque during normal driving.
kilroy123
I believe Elon is taking SpaceX public because he knows that Tesla is cooked. The Chinese have already won. They're pumping out cars for $10,000, 1,000 km range, and at jaw-dropping scale.
He knows Tesla is on borrowed time.
pjc50
Tesla are in a strange place: people keep pointing out how decoupled the stock price is from the car business, and the stock refuses to go down. Partly because they're still selling the dream of full FSD.
Chinese companies seem to be ignoring FSD and going straight for the full EV crown. Japanese companies are clinging to hybrids, which they do well, but are still dependent on petrol.
America simply won't let the Chinese cars in and will continue to buy $100k gas guzzler trucks, because that's what the market demands.
khriss
> because that's what the market demands.
Is that true though? People are currently forced to buy gas guzzlers since there are simply no practical and cheap EVs available in the United States. If Chinese EVs were allowed to be sold in the US, it's not a given that people would still prefer ICE cars.
Indeed, the fact that they are banned suggests that the Govt knows that the domestic car industry can't compete with them.
fragmede
The Nissan Leaf and Chevy Bolt (and Volt) and Fiat e500 don't exist in your narrative? People want their big SUVs, even Tesla sells one or two.
aurareturn
Chinese companies seem to be ignoring FSD
tristanj
No, it's because Elon understands the model of selling cars for humans to drive will be dead by the end of the next decade. With self-driving cars, the economics of buying a personal car stop making sense (personal cars are utilized <5% of the time, while self-driving cars can see >60% utilization), the cost-per-mile of a self-driving car is lower than that of a personal one, so people will switch to ride hailing over purchasing a car. This happened before around 2015 when Uber was massively subsidizing ride hailing, where it was cheaper to Uber everywhere than to buy a car. Many people realized the cost of insurance + car payment was higher than just Ubering everywhere, so they took Uber and never bought a car. And given the option of driving a car manually or letting the computer drive for you, 95% of people will choose the computer for convenience. Self-driving is proven technology, see Waymo.
The consumer car market will collapse 50-80% by 2040, and Tesla leadership sees this.
There is no point on trying to innovate on a dying market. It makes far more sense to move onto future markets, i.e. selling cybercabs and robots.
pjc50
I know that's the sales pitch, but does the economics actually work out that way? You mention subsidized ride hailing, for example.
> (personal cars are utilized <5% of the time, while self-driving cars can see >60% utilization)
How much of that 5% is commuting, though? If there are two one-hour long windows in the day where a lot of people want to make the same trip at the same time, the fact that cars are idle in the middle of the night or day doesn't help with that. And that's also going to be peak surge pricing time.
The time economics gets worse in non-suburban areas. In high density urban areas, it's already too congested to not take public transport. In very low density areas, you might hail a ride, but you've got to wait for it to become available and arrive.
> Self-driving is proven technology, see Waymo.
Only in certain locations, and still dependent on occasional remote operator intervention. Tesla have been promising for years and not delivered, and every year they don't deliver makes it less likely that they ever will.
I think there's room in the market for such substitution, but it underestimates how much people love their cars as a form of personal space and personal brand extension.
tristanj
Your analysis neglects the effect of self-driving vehicles on public transit. Self-driving busses and self-driving vans will vastly expand available public transit routes. Many public transit routes are not profitable (because they require a driver who costs ~$20-30/hour). Self-driving busses and vans will enable these routes, and shift people away from private vehicle long-distance commuting.
This will have a number of benefits, including increasing frequency of public transit, reduced traffic, reduced long-distance transit costs, etc.
Waymo is actually viable in pretty much the entirety of the US, they are able to expand whenever they want, but choose not to, because they're too risk averse.
When was the last time you sat in a self-driving Tesla? Today it's actually really good. It's gotten so much better over the past 5 years. I can see Tesla's self-driving business being viable by 2030.
> underestimates how much people love their cars as a form of personal space and personal brand extension.
This is the most vocal demographic of vehicle owners, but in reality they are not a significant percentage of the population. IMO most people don't like driving, and would rather not drive.
bryanlarsen
If this self driving future is better, people will be driving more, not less. Add dead heading and milage will increase even further.
If cars still get about 200 000 miles of life like they do now then we'll have fewer cars, replaced more often, so still requiring the production of a similar number of cars.
We'll need million mile cars to reduce that, and those don't appear to be coming from Tesla.
tristanj
> If this self driving future is better, people will be driving more, not less
People won't be driving at all.
> still requiring the production of a similar number of cars.
Doesn't address my point, that consumers won't be the ones buying cars. These cars will be sold to self-driving vehicle fleet managers, not consumers.
Obviously, cars will still be made, but not consumer cars. The consumer car market is dead.
> those don't appear to be coming from Tesla
Tesla just killed its consumer vehicles Model X and Model S. Tesla shifted focus into the Cybercab & Cybervan, both self-driving only vehicles, which don't have steering wheels.
senordevnyc
The consumer car market will collapse 50-80% by 2040
Absolutely not. You're correct about Waymo having solved self-driving cars, but approximately no one is going to choose using Waymo over owning a self-driving car, just like approximately no one did that back in 2015 with Uber. Sure, a few bloggers in major urban areas did, but they represent a tiny, tiny fraction of the global market. People like owning cars, for a variety of reasons, and I don't think that's going to change. Even if I took Waymo 80% of the time, I'd still want a car. And I hate owning cars! It just beats the alternatives.
tristanj
Many, many people will switch, because the cost difference is absurd. The cost per mile for a personal EV is $0.75/mi. The cost per mile for a shared AV EV (at scale) is $0.40/mi. People will save hundreds of dollars per months by not owning a car.
Millions of Americans can barely make their car payments, car payments + insurance are the second highest expense for most households, and I can absolutely see a huge percentage of this group switching to self-driving rideshare only.
I'd generally agree with you that people want to own cars, but for many infrequent drivers it does not make sense to own.
lossolo
This doesn't change anything. Tesla is not leading in anything anymore.
I was in China a few weeks ago, and in some cities you can already get the equivalent of Waymo. There are also dozens of huge companies working on self driving there, with very friendly laws that make it easier to get training data and test things.
There are hundreds of companies working on robots as well, and many of them are already ahead when it comes to productionizing them.
Tesla entered a new market around a decade ago, back when they had little to no competition. For years, they were ahead of everyone. But now, everything they do has competition, and in most features/products that competition is ahead of them.
Their valuation doesn't make any sense.
londons_explore
Manufacturing was always going to be temporary in the USA. You just can't win at manufacturing cost sensitive goods when all your workers want to be highly paid.
Should have gone the Apple route - design in the USA, make in China, and use a walled garden to ensure hardware clones aren't desirable and can't run any of your apps/features.
ZeroGravitas
Tesla makes more than half its cars in China. They are generally regarded as better in quality than the US built ones.
londons_explore
But they have no walled garden...
They should by now have some kind of platooning feature where you press a button and it'll hook up to the Tesla car ahead of you for long distance journeys.
Or a 'tesla miles club', where driving 100k miles gets you perks like free insurance, theme park tickets etc.
Or something like 'free parking when you park with a friend who also has a tesla'.
Basically Tesla needs the equivalent of the iMessage blue bubble lock in effect and the 'all my stuff is on iCloud it would be too hard to move to android' effect.
metalman
Flagship killer.
askl
Nice to see innovation in the EV market.
Meanwhile legacy EV maker Tesla continues doing nothing other than silly toy projects. (Or rather hyping up silly toy projects and actually doing nothing at all)
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There's a big Chinese auto show happening this week so there's a lot of announcements.
The same site has an overview post:
https://electrek.co/2026/04/26/beijing-auto-show-2026-insane...
> In a single hall at the show, there were more EV models on display than there are available ones in the entire United States. There are 17 halls at this show. Seventeen. And they all have more EVs than the US market.
> The show features 1,451 vehicles, including 181 world premieres and 71 concept cars, sprawling across a record-breaking 380,000 square meters of exhibition space at two venues. It’s now the largest auto show in the world — and it’s not even close.