AirPods Max 2

I remember a teardown where weights were taped inside. I think it was a beats headphone.

The weight is sign of reliability

-Boris the bullet dodger

Sure, plenty of people also wear a 14 oz hard hat strapped to their head all day with no negative health impacts. Doesn't mean it's enjoyable or comfortable for everyone.

I have a pair and they’re fine for wearing when sat down. In fact they’re my preferred headphones for airplane journeys and noisy offices because the noise cancelling is top notch.

However I tried to wear them one on a train commute and it was horrid. Walking around with them really isn’t fun precisely because of their weight.

Every head movement feels like hard work and the headphones don’t even feel stable on your head during any movement due to the weight.

So I end up owned two headphones (well, technically 3):

1. AirPod Max for focus time

2. Sennheiser earphones (in ear) for commuting / exercise workouts.

3. Sennheiser DJ cans for DJing, video streaming and other times when I need wired, zero latency, audio.

I used to wear them daily and I didn't like it. Noise cancellation was important for me, but they were really heavy.

I have absolutely no problem with the weight. My only gripe is with the battery and lack of a power button.

There is a procedure to lessen the clamp pressure. I did it and was worried I’d break them, but it worked like a charm. Still too heavy, though.

Did those headphones have a band over the top?

Can you name the models? I'd be curious to know.

I know my way around premium wireless headphones and I'd wager most of them within that price range are somewhere between 250 and 320 grams (like 8.8 oz to 11 oz).

That doesn't sound right. I have them on my desk. Don't even know where the bra case is. I use and charge them only once in a blue moon, perhaps every 2 months, and the battery does not die. I don't lay them flat or anything either.

Like others here, I don’t have this problem. I often leave them in my backpack for weeks between airplane flights, etc.

Have you reset your AirPods Max by holding down the non circular button until it starts blinking white and then reconnecting?

There have been times where the AirPods Max have sort of crashed, and I cannot get them to connect properly. I find that forgetting the AirPods in the phone/computer and then resetting them by holding down the button allows them to start fresh with a new state. Maybe that can help resolve the issue for you. But Im constantly switching them between three nearby devices so maybe thats why I have this problem. Just throwing it out there in case you haven't tried a reset.

Try hard reset (long press (~15s) both buttons).

I know I have had this issue and did not have it after reset. Though I do have another annoying, and seemingly unique issue: sometimes, when adjusting the position of the headphone, they do a “click” (and a loud one), and just shut down. After a few seconds, they boot up again.

The farthest from the last reset, the more often it happens. I have no idea why.

I mean, I regularly leave them on a shelf in my apartment and they apparently do not consider that "down" or "stationary" enough to not just drain the battery completely. Truly a bafflingly bad design from the company that is (was) known for great hardware design.

They do, they turn off almost entirely once you leave them stationary for five minutes.

This is the same as any over-ear headphones.

Perhaps for Find My/UWB support?

Comma as decimal separator is actually the most common format, by number of countries, though dot still wins by population.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_separator#/media/File:...

Interesting notion, but how do you know it's 13.6 and not 13.600?

You're too high by a power of 10.

No it’s not?

On a planet with 10g gravity.

I think you'd find quite a difference between 386,2 g and 3862 g, especially when wearing it on your head.

I had the same reaction to the originals. They just hurt! One of my kids swiped them and I never used them again: I wanted to like them but they were almost as uncomfortable as my Vision Pro

Have you taken them to an Apple Store and said they hurt? They're likely to do something about it.

The AirPods Max are the most comfortable headphones I've ever worn. My head and my ears are both significantly larger than average and they are the only ones that don't squash my ears. I keep the Apple bra on it, inside a 3rd-party hard case, and it never runs down on its own. The battery is still healthy five years later. It's the last surviving Lightning connector in our household, and I might keep them for another five years.

How about moores law?

I recently bought 4 wooden chairs that costed me more than that but there is significantly more technology in a Macbook Neo

A Moto G also has more technology than a Nakajima WPT-160 typewriter (which is still in production) but the latter costs more. Comparing "technology for the buck" across totally different kinds of products and markets sometimes just doesn't make any sense.

It costs that much because people are willing to pay more for better sound, better noise cancelling, etc, even if the returns are diminishing. Perhaps a $500 pair of headphones only sounds 3% better than a $200 pair. But people will still shell out for better headphones. Sometimes they just think it is better even if it isn't actually measurably better. The existence of numerous successful products on the market is evidence that this is a niche where people are willing to pay for such products.

It's kinda like, who decided that TVs and phones should cost the same? Or who decided that a khinkali should cost 3 times as much as a xiaolongbao?

My Sony XM3's still going something like 8 years now. Incredible value.

I have a lot of Apple gear, these would be obvious next choice because of integration, but I struggle to justify why otherwise. They heavy, going to pain to repair and cost much more.

How much is your house worth? Whatever someone is willing to pay for it today. That's it. There's no right price. If they can cover costs and make a profit (or better yet a huge profit), then they're pricing it right. Sure, it doesn't work for you. It doesn't work for me either, which is why I don't have a pair. But they seem to be profitable, so there are enough people out there that want them. I just got off a plane a couple days ago and three people within one row around me each had AirPods Max on. Go figure. They're the new status symbol, I guess.

Wait til you find out about literally every other area of discretionary spending.

I mean, if we're talking any pair of headphones... a good Television certainly costs more than that, why should good sound be less worthy if investment?

> audio legacy of those companies

Ex studio tech here. Legacy doesn't cover contracted manufacturing.

I'm not defending apple here, but using chinese drivers (which I assume is a synonym for poor quality) is fine so long as they are binned for performance, and matched/tuned to housing. I'm assuming the mic inside the ear cup is there to do dynamic EQ.

Also the drivers are screwed into a solid aluminium housing, so they aren't glued.

NS10s which are the standard reference mixing speakers were chosen not because they were high quality, but because they were average. If you could get your mix to sound good on those, it'd sound great anywhere.

So yeah, they are expensive. Would I buy them? probably not. I'm reasonably happy with my plantronic jobbies. Are they perfect? no, are they comfortable? yes. Is the active noise cancelling actually effective? also no, but then ANC is only really useful for a small subset of noises types. (even on Sonys. )

> Sennheiser momentum 4, 150 bucks

Where do you see these at 150? Lowest I see is 250.

Sony actually listened and made the cups foldable again though

Yeah, but anc is trash in the Sennheisers.

a link?

I'm a slight audiophile, enough to own a Schitt stack and lower-end planar magnetics, overall cost would be slightly more than the AirPods Max 2. I did try the previous generation and walked away with no emotional response either way to the quality of the sound.

The Apple tax makes me extremely skeptical that I would get $500+ worth of sound quality, however ANC upsets that equation quite a bit. For around the same cost I could get a much better set of DAC+Amp+Headphones but it would sound objectively worse in a noisy environment.

You also can't experience true lossless on any bluetooth audio output device, for what that's worth (many "true" audiophiles would fail an A/B test for AAC).

The previous generation were also REALLY bassy, and there's nothing wrong with that, bassy headphones are how to make things sound "fun" and that's why the likes of Beats make so much money. That categorically makes it not audiophile, though, because it just takes an EQ/pre-amp to achieve the same effect (which can be toggled on and off).

Ultimately, my most basic issue with these is that if you're willing to blow 500 bucks on headphones, then going modular (DAC+Amp+Headphones) will give you more room to explore something that you apparently really enjoy.

As a (sane) audiophile, I happily use Apple devices for enjoyable listening. Their headphones have amazing clarity and soundstage for their size. If you keep in mind that AirPods are calibrated to your ears with your iPhone's FaceID camera, they provide nice, tailored sound.

I also have nice, but not over the top equipment. Yes, some of them sound nicer and more detailed (you can't compare large, 100W/channel bookshelf speakers with headphones, can you?), but for getting 95% of what they provide without any effort is pretty worth it.

Last, but not the least, Apple used Wolfson DACs in their iPods for most of their lifetime. Their replacement DACs are not worse than the Wolfsons, but probably even better.

The AirPods lineup is actually reasonably popular on audiophile forums.

Hi! I have Audezes and AirPods Max. They're both great.

I mean, it depends on your definition.

I have a nontrivial listening rig in my house. I've spent thousands in headphones over the years (which happens quickly at $300-500 a pop). The finest ones I've owned MIGHT edge the Max out in certain conditions, but

- The Max add ANC - The Max are wireless - The Max are seamlessly integrated with the rest of my Apple gear

so to me that makes them the go-to -- so much so that I actually sold off the other headphones when we moved last year. I just wasn't using them.

The tl;dr is that the Max -- even the first gen -- do indeed perform very, very well.

The feature that applies a hearing test as an equalizer setting make the APM sound pretty damn good, so much so it ended my 20 year long headphone-collecting hobby.

Before hearing-tuned EQ became a thing, trying headphones was like trying food. No matter what someone else said it was no guarantee you'd like the sound. Conversely, you might find a cheap pair that sounded spectacular to you. The APM will sound very good to just about anyone, with the hearing test EQ applied.

I think every headphone maker (or better yet, DAC maker) should have this feature. Audiophiles are often old, a hearing test EQ can make them hear music like they're 20 again, and they'll pay for it.

> cheap items with 3M hearing protection

Can I ask which, please?

at no point should your skull be deforming. Maybe the skin and fat layer ontop but the skull itself should not be deforming after an hour of hearing a device on a healthy individual.

Please see a doctor!!

It took Apple realizing that putting fashion so far out ahead of function on Vision Pro was costing it usage to see the dual strap. The ergonomics of the first strap were dog shit, and everyone, certainly Apple, knew years before Vision Pro launched that a dual strap was the only way to make longer sessions viable. But a dual strap was also uglier, and Vision Pro already had acceptability problems.

Look at the marketing materials for Vision Pro using the single strap. Next, look at the marketing materials with the dual strap. Which one of those would sell better into an office context where at least half the population spends considerable time fixing their hair. Which one looks slightly futuristic and which looks like a CPAP headset.

"How it looks" led Apple to ship a deficient strap, one that made the device actually hurt to use. And how it looks is why Apple stuck with that garbage strap for 18 months despite knowing from extensive user research that the dual strap was superior ergonomically, and despite having already done the R&D for the dual strap.

It was only when Apple had mostly given up on Vision Pro, understanding that the user base wasn't going to hockey stick, that fashion was already a complete failure, that they began offering the sillier looking but infinitely more functional dual strap. After 18 months, all Apple had was its existing user base, selling only a few thousand devices a month, so it shifted from growth to sustaining and that's what the dual strap and M5 logic board swap was for, holding onto the few users it has until it could figure out how or if to proceed with the product line.

That's not the case with Apple's headphones. That strap could easily be a lot higher quality without being a lot less fashionable.

Phew, that's a relief. Guess that's a reasonable compromise for a $550 product for which there are no other quality competitors.

I thought this was parody at first- are you guys seriously ok with this?

> it’s in the soft tissue on top of it

Can anyone with a medical background confirm if this is a thing, or folks are just noticing old undulations in their skulls?

You sure that's not from something else?

That... doesn't happen. More likely it's an indentation in your scalp.

I’m sorry but this might be the dumbest comment I have ever read on HN.

It allows two devices to connect at the same time. I usually have my phone and my macbook hooked up to it all the time. Once in a while one of them will act badly and usurp full control over the bluetooth connection and I'll have to disconnect it. Super rare. For the most part the experience is seamless.

I had this exact problem on my AirPod pros too! It is the internal mic, but if you forcefully suck the air out from the black mesh microphone openings, it gets rid of it.

There’s some random form of someone out there who figured this out, so credit to them, but this fixed mine (I couldn’t bear transparency mode for the longest time lol)

I had this problem! Then I cleaned the earwax out of the mics and it went away.

Servicing is not done by Apple, it's 3rd party contractors. They have a rubric of possible issues from Apple and their profit margins are thin. I suspect contacting Apple support about Apple support issues would have resulted in a swift replacement of the item.

But that’s the thing, apparently it’s not using Bluetooth but actually uses their new wireless chips to transmit the data over radio (maybe it uses WiFi, maybe something else). So it’s not using Bluetooth, which doesn’t have enough bandwidth for lossless.

I don’t think “it’s just marketing” is the reason, Apple always positioned themselves as the premium option with these things. Being the only wireless lossless headphone would be right on Apple’s expected feature list.

I don't think this is the right analysis, pretty much all products follow an ever steepening curve of price to get to the highest quality. The general sentiment on HN, of which I count myself among, is that you stop before the curve gets too steep. You can stop at Oreos you don't have to pay Stella Parks to make you hers. You get the highest quality thing that isn't commanding crazy premium prices.

But the market for that last 10% 1% 0.1% does exist. Like yes it's funny to make fun of middle aged guys who buy extremely expensive cars and who if actually tested couldn't tell the difference between a $60k sports car and a $160k sports car and there are plenty of businesses that prey on that lack of discerning taste to take advantage but it doesn't mean the difference isn't there at all.

Is the GR86 hand made?

Indeed, like MagSafe charging—they simplify. Simplicity has a premium.

That said, my first pair failed out of Apple Care and resulted in a full cost replacement. The APM sub is littered with stories of the BT module failing.

I’m sure it is ludicrous to some but I often measure value by utility and I go through entire workdays wearing this product.

Is that not a standard feature?

My ~6 year old Jabra headphones connect to two devices simultaneously, and can easily switch between a total of five at the touch of a button. My Pixel Buds do the same (called 'multipoint' and 'audio switch').

Yeah, things were more awkward in the mid 2010s, but I'd expect everything from the current decade to be able to do it without issue.

Another great benefit provided by AirPods.

They also work natively with iOS's built-in noise reduction modes. No need for Krisp!

If your gen 1 are already excellent for you, there’s no reason to upgrade, same as there’s no reason to get a new phone or laptop every year. My wired headphones are ten plus years old and will be fine for a couple more decades; my gen1 Max, at a fifth the price, are also fine and will be fine until their Bluetooth becomes too old (which may be ten or twenty years these days). Both benefit from earcup swaps occasionally (but gen1 lightning needs them more often than usb-c.)

If you’re unsatisfied with Transparency mode on your gen1 then the gen2 will give you Adaptive which is a big improvement (especially so if you wear them outdoors or around other people). Same improvement that the AirPods had, if you’re familiar with that.

If you use them for videoconferencing, the lower latency and higher quality headset codec may be worth upgrading. They retain value on the used market so long as you unpair them from Find My an hour before you sell them and have a purchase receipt.

I suspect there might be some slight power savings for your transmitting devices if both sides support Bluetooth 5.3, but I would not expect that to be significant or advertised.

Not everyone likes in-ear headphones, so if you want something that works seamlessly across multiple devices, its the only option.

You don't have to melt through that adhesive - it's incredibly weak and you can just pop it out with a sufficiently thin pry bar. This guide [1] does it with an iSesamo, but I just used a utility knife since I had one on hand and wasn't particularly concerned with scratches (the entire seam is covered by the headphone pads, so scratches around it are invisible).

[1]: https://docs.kenp.io/airpods-max/usb-c-kit/v1dot1_assembly/

"...the thin wires carrying power can crack over time, specifically after hundreds or thousands of swivels of the earcups (since they turn 90 degrees to fit flat into their case). That microscopic crack can cause issues with the connection.

By freezing the AirPods, the cold can cause the lining around the wires to contract, temporarily bringing the cracked sections together."

https://www.cnet.com/tech/mobile/airpods-max-freezer-fix/

The platters come unstuck and can spin again.