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oneplane
LennyHenrysNuts
And I had to come here to find out what it actually was. Why don't project pages ever actually tell you what it is, what it does and how it does it?
Half the time it's something like "Plorglewurzle leverages your big data block chain to provide sublinear microservices to Azure Cloud infrastructures"
At least this one kind of shows you having to install Windows.
Hobadee
I call this the "marketing website problem".
Unfortunately many companies have realized that engineers don't make purchasing decisions. (Mearly suggestions) Rather, C-Suite, who knows nothing about the technical side of things, and everything about the buzzword side, makes the decisions. As a result, companies know that if they just throw a bunch of inflated marketing mumbo-jumbo at the user, while it will turn off every engineer asking "WTF does this actually do and how does it work", some C-Suite will run out and purchase it without asking, then force their entire team to use it because it "produces synergy of the AI block chain and big data cloud APIs while enhancing productivity". Then us Engineers are stuck using it, whether we wanted it or not.
BobbyTables2
Agree. Have even seen too many companies whose main product completely avoids such questions. I don’t get it.
Must be why I’m not wealthy. I always figured one would have to show people a reason why they should give boat loads of money…
rbanffy
> Must be why I’m not wealthy. I always figured one would have to show people a reason why they should give boat loads of money…
This one hit hard. It turns out Phineas Barnum was right this whole time.
hypfer
> Why don't project pages ever actually tell you what it is
If it's a good thing with substance, they do.
If they don't, don't use it. This usually hints at a broken culture/missing substance. It _can_ also be ineptitude, but that too is not your problem but theirs.
You woke up this morning not having the problem this sets out to solve. You can go to sleep and rest easily this night, knowing that you still don't have whatever problem this sets out to solve.
If you should one day wake up and notice that you have a problem this could solve, you will find yourself googling for a solution, again side-stepping this whole marketing nonsense.
ClikeX
Agreed, a lot of product pages read like Rick & Morty's interdimensional cable.
pipes
I was complaining about this sort of thing in another thread.
userbinator
Missed opportunity to call it "Linux Subsystem for Windows", or LSW in short.
archargelod
I think this name would be confusing. For one - it is for linux, not windows.And it is a subsystem running Windows. So, it should be called Windows Subsystem for Linux, or WSL.
charrondev
You might be missing context here.
There is a feature of Windows called “Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL)” already that basically does the inverse of this (windows host, Linux VM).
https://github.com/microsoft/WSL
The feature is a windows subsystem (for running Linux).
exe34
that's the joke!
heavyset_go
It's literally just dockur/windows:latest + FreeRDP rootless mode + a small daemon that runs in the VM that tells you what apps are installed via an API.
If you don't want the latter part, you'd be better served with the dockur/windows image + FreeRDP
jeroenhd
I believe Cassowary (https://github.com/casualsnek/cassowary) is an older tool that does pretty much this.
My experience with it is that FreeRDP in rootless mode isn't very good for Windows applications that do anything special with window borders. Using Office and many other programs became a pain.
When it worked, it worked really well, though. Reminds me of the same feature that VMWare used to offer many years ago for running XP/Vista programs on Windows 7 through a VM.
dijit
can you do "pass a single window" with freeRDP? I haven't actually seen that before so forgive me for asking.
This project looks like it does that, but I could be wrong.
heavyset_go
Yes, it's rootless mode. FreeRDP only works with X11, so it runs in Xwayland and the integration isn't as smooth as it could be.
It's reminiscent of rootless mode in Parallels, just as janky, too.
JoshTriplett
> can you do "pass a single window" with freeRDP?
That's what "rootless" mode does.
senectus1
and with MS making sure you have to sign in with a MS account... i dont really see the point of this.
chii
> MS making sure you have to sign in with a MS account
if you are capable of running linux, you're capable of working out the various ways to bypass that sign-in "requirement".
fragmede
But if using hello@example.com as the email, and using F10 and oobe or whateve command you pulled off Google stop working, and then you have to move to more exotic options, like downloading programs to modify disk images to prepare a USB drive to install an LTSP or IoT copy of windows 10 it's all just such a waste of time to do something that should be easy all because someone at Microsoft got on this kick that what they want is more important than what the customer wants. It's so frustrating!
Forgeties79
As a non-coder/engineer Linux user…I’ll admit that’s actually not obvious to me. Linux is trivially easy to run these days.
I could probably drop my dad in Mint and he’d assume windows just looks different. Maybe that’s a tad facetious but also ehhhh I could maybe get away with it
Asmod4n
Only the home version has that issue.
Zardoz84
Exactly the same thing of WSL2
gcr
In-place ABI translation is how wine works, what do you mean?
ho_schi
Let me guess. When it gets tricky it fails. USB? Own IP? 3D? Bluetooth?
My recommendation for happiness with Linux is: Always use native apps. Don’t use WINE. Don’t try to be compatible to inherent hostile things. Don’t use VMs. And especially don’t use Dual-Boot. It sucks.
Basically migrate and go full Linux. Don’t look back :)
Proton (which is WINE derivative) works somehow, because Valve invests every single day tremendous efforts into it. But that’s the problem, tremendous efforts.
The good news. Every bit invested in high quality API/ABI on Linux pays off. Valve contributions to MESA and amdgpu are invaluable. Valve should honor native AAA-Titles and Indie-Titles for Linux - with exclusive Steam Awards. There is awesome stuff like Unrailed. Make the game developers think:
“I better should do a proper port. And it should not be done by the Win32 developer. Task the Linux developer.”
PPS: I use a Mac for two incompatible applications (Garmin Express and Zwift). Less maintenance than Windows. Less possibilities than Linux. Horrible file-browser. Window management is a pain. But it covers the gap without ruining my day. I have to admit, the Mac cannot run Counter-Strike 2. That’s a task for Linux :)
petabyt
Bad advice. Counterpoint: Wine works really well (especially for old applications) and there's nothing wrong with using it. If people restrict themselves to arbitrary rules then many won't be able to use Linux.
pjmlp
Ask IBM how "OS/2 For Windows" turned out.
edoceo
There is value in those who push by absolutes like this; they are moving the world in their direction; it's important to the market to have some edge-zealots on the demand side. Helps prevent monopoly and is an at-large benefit.
Disclosure: I'm 100% Linux since 2005 (except embed devices (game console, Roku)). All the Line-of-Business stuff "just works".
ho_schi
Long time WINE user. It did break so often. I did run Counter-Strike and other software, and usually an update ruined it. Because? It is not supported. The programmers don’t care about WINE and Linux.
The setup is usually a pain and needs workarounds. Same for weird SMB or Exchange stuff. It is a hell. The admin changes a setting and you’re in trouble.
It was fixed with the native port of Counter-Strike. Exchange was fixed by EU regulation. The other applications found better native replacements. I’m giving you the advice because the “hacker ideology” doesn’t help users. Users need reliability and defined behavior. The users itself can influence that by using compatible software and APIs. And by requesting it. And we need to pay for it.
Don’t lock back. Don’t stay in a hostile relationship. The same advice applies to government agencies or companies. Prepare. Clean cut.
PS: As mentioned I except Proton (as derivative of WINE). Valve controls Steam. Valve works permanent on fixing new issues. They could told a company to hold the update back to protect Linux.
jraph
There's a place for pushing strong philosophical points. But that's not what this comment is. This comment is practical advice, and I think it misses the point.
"Try to avoid relying on proprietary software" is strong. "Avoid any option that exists to run software you think you need" feels out of touch, especially when it says "I use Mac for X and Y" - which is barely practical: having a whole extra, expensive computer that's not maintained forever is quite the costly workaround for an arbitrary stance like "don't use Wine" that they don't motivate so much in the end (there's no practical explanation in that comment for avoiding VMs or Wine - they say maintenance, but I don't see what's hard to maintain in running Wine).
The comment argues "The good news. Every bit invested in high quality API/ABI on Linux pays off.". I do agree. I don't know about high quality, and it hurts a bit to say it, but it so happens that Windows might be the only stable API/ABI on Linux, with Wine being a completely libre reimplementation of it. If you need to write a program that you are reasonably sure will run on any Linux in 20 years without intervention, Wine might be your best bet (with AppImage probably your second best bet). What would be the fundamental (philosophical, practical, technical) reason to avoid targeting Wine? What makes winelib so different from other libraries such that you should avoid it? Genuinely curious. What real alternative is there? Qt and Gtk break the API each major version and even the GNU libc doesn't guarantee ABI stability. The only reasonable alternative is "maintained free software" (and that's what I happen to rely on).
FWIW, I have no stake in this: I use only free software, I mostly don't use Wine nor contribute to it, and I wish I were wrong.
twosdai
I mean in terms of market here, for games (largest current use case for Wine / proton). Its not really a market. I think the investment for linux over windows is for steam to try and push people away from windows so as to reduce the competition for Xbox Game Pass. In the most recent report for steam, linux users are like 2-3% of the total share. I'm not sure that "edge lords" pushing the market, really factors into valve's decision. If Xbox Game Pass goes under, then I think steam will likely reduce its investment in proton.
Just my take though, I get your point that people spreading this idea and encouraging it have a place and at least its not negative. I just don't think that they really are market movers.
LtWorf
Every single wine version has regressions.
zzo38computer
I found I was unable to install Wine due to package manager conflicts. I had only one Windows program (Everett Kaser's Hero Hearts game) that I wanted to run on Linux, so I wrote my own implementation of the game engine, which is (in my opinion) much better than the original implementation.
anthk
Flatpak and Lutris solves that.
IshKebab
Ok now write your own implementation of SOLIDWORKS please.
marcus_holmes
I switched my gaming desktop over to Linux last year.
My experience has mostly been that Linux native versions just aren't as good as the Windows-on-Proton version. (Shout out to Larian for their recent BG3 release, a much better native version.)
Totally agree that Proton only works so well because of the constant effort that Valve put into it.
Shouting at game devs to make better native Linux versions isn't going to work. What will work is that the market demographics are slowly moving over to Linux, mostly thanks to Valve, Proton and the Steam Deck.
flanked-evergl
In practice, the most stable API on Linux is WINE. There are of course things game devs can do to counteract this, but they won't, and WINE works amazingly well for games, so they don't need to either.
LtWorf
In practice all those 32 bit binaries won't run on any machine real soon.
nine_k
Very often what holds you back is not a huge and complex thing like an AAA game, but something far less demanding and obscure. Something like an app to design knitting patterns, elaborate, purpose-built, and without a huge team behind it. Not open-source though. In this case, seamless compatibility is great.
(For games, there is Proton.)
paranoidrobot
For me (Well, my grandmother) it was Family Tree Maker.
To cut a very long story short - after Windows 10 restarted on her, and changed default browser and application settings too many times she was going to completely give up using the computer.
I built a new machine (a Dell AIO workstation) for her with Ubuntu, FTM and a few other things.
Worked brilliantly.
babypuncher
I've found games running in Proton to provide better long-term compatibility than many native games. Despite Steam providing a stable runtime for native games, I have a few titles from their first major Linux push back in the '10s that are now crash-happy or exhibit substantial performance problems, but work perfectly fine when I use the Windows version with Proton.
Telling people not to even think about using their favorite piece of software is a good way to make sure they don't consider switching. A lot of popular Windows apps run perfectly fine in WINE. I've been using foobar2000 in it for a decade at this point, and have yet to find a native alternative that gives me the same feature set. So why shouldn't I keep running it?
Rohansi
> provide better long-term compatibility than many native games
This is one of the big, but less obvious, benefits to Wine/Proton. Games with native Linux builds run into all kinds of distro-specific issues that you don't really get on Windows. It's an issue for new games and an even worse issue for older games that aren't being updated anymore. Just look at Steam on macOS to see how big of an issue this is - so many games are not compatible on the latest Macs because they were built for x86 (32-bit).
r0uv3n
"Win32 is the only stable ABI on Linux" - https://blog.hiler.eu/win32-the-only-stable-abi/
aleph_minus_one
> My recommendation for happiness with Linux is: Always use native apps. Don’t use WINE. Don’t try to be compatible to inherent hostile things.
Rather: don't try to be compatible with inherently unstable APIs:
https://sporks.space/2022/02/27/win32-is-the-stable-linux-us...
https://blog.hiler.eu/win32-the-only-stable-abi/
Just to be clear: I consider it to be a good idea to write native apps for GNU/Linux, but first stabilize the APIs so that they stay basically stable for at least 20 years.
asmor
This is mostly a UX problem. Many ways to shoot yourself in the foot. Maybe someone could write a linter for checking symbol tables for depending on shared libraries not in the Steam runtime and private symbol use.
But also, compiling everything with dynamic libraries is kind of an interesting side effect of having all the source code in a single context of a distribution; maybe you should always statically compile if you're not part of this system.
aleph_minus_one
> But also, compiling everything with dynamic libraries is kind of an interesting side effect of having all the source code in a single context of a distribution
Under Windows, this is also done. But there is a difference: changes in a system-wide DLL better are really backwards-compatible.
If there are breaking changes, a new "package" gets introduced with new names for the DLLs. This is why on many Windows systems, lots of versions of, for example, the "Microsoft Visual C++ Redistributable" are installed. Nevertheless, the old versions are still available and get maintained for a very long time at least with respect to security fixes.
Also, the API design under Windows tends to be much more "future-proof". For example, a lot of data structures contain some size information as a first field so that the API can detect which "version" of a data structure has been passed so that future changes can be implemented in a backwards-compatible manner, e.g. WNDCLASSEXA:
> https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/winuser/...
The first field is cbSize.
To me, it seems in the GNU/Linux ecosystem, the API developers care a lot less about such topics.
bigstrat2003
> My recommendation for happiness with Linux is: Always use native apps. Don’t use WINE. Don’t try to be compatible to inherent hostile things. Don’t use VMs. And especially don’t use Dual-Boot. It sucks.
This is terrible advice. Many people want to use Windows apps while using Linux, and Wine works just fine for that. And for those few that don't work in Wine, dual boot works great.
jeroenhd
> My recommendation for happiness with Linux is: Always use native apps. Don’t use WINE. Don’t try to be compatible to inherent hostile things. Don’t use VMs. And especially don’t use Dual-Boot. It sucks.
Had I listened to your recommendation, I would've never tried Linux.
Sorry, but Linux doesn't run Photoshop. Or Valorant. Or certain VPNs, certain educational software, and doesn't work with a bunch of hardware.
Dual booting is still a hell of a lot better than trying to configure Wine in most cases, but if doing everything natively on Linux was an option, it would've have taken SteamOS so many years to become even remotely usable. And even then people install Windows on their Steam Decks to run certain specific programs or games.
For the same reason native Linux isn't an option, native macOS wouldn't have been an option back when I first tried Linux. And even today, programs like Paint.NET are dearly missed on Linux and macOS (yes, I know about Pinta), and stock macOS is infuriating to use without all manner of tools and background programs reminding me of my XP. I use Windows for my Windows tools, Linux most of the time, and macOS for my macOS work stuff. I'm not getting rid of either non-Linux OS because that would make doing certain things simply impossible.
eek2121
WINE has basically become a gaming wrapper at this point. There are not many (modern) apps outside of games that run on WINE. However, games run great!
Last I checked, Office 365 didn't work, Basically anything modern Adobe didn't work, even the latest version of Visual Studio (not VSCode) didn't work. Things may have changed, I just learned to live without that stuff.
heavyset_go
A niche Wine does suit well is running audio plugins for music production.
Wouldn't have believed it if I didn't first see and then use it myself.
Think it's because JUCE is relatively well-supported on Wine and natively on Linux, there are hardly any dependencies outside of system libraries and a DSP library.
array_key_first
That's because all those apps are purposefully hostile and actively do everything in their power to make sure they don't work without their authorization.
Solution: don't use those apps and maybe people will learn. Eventually, apps and technologies like this die in our digital landscape. Rest in piece Flash, you will be missed. 3D max and Photoshop, you're next.
Real solution (for now): just don't give these assholes money. If you need to run the software, fine, but at least have the decency to steal it.
rpdillon
Wine is great for running the old versions of stuff that weren't shackled to the cloud. Adobe and MS Office versions from ~2013 or so work great, and are more than enough of an escape hatch when native tools don't quite cut it.
Agree that modern apps are hit and miss.
Forgeties79
> Basically anything modern Adobe didn't work
Well that’s just Adobe badumtsssss
aperrien
I didn't know about Pinta, and now I do. Thank you!
dangus
+1 for this, and I’ll add Autodesk to this list.
I tried everything. I tried some dude’s GitHub project to get it to work with Wine. It’s just not working for me.
Something like this seems perfect for that use case.
cyanydeez
Wouldn't even dual boot. But a cheap mini PC and keyboard mouse monitor switch.
Done
soiltype
A simple input switch can be had cheap, but I spent some time last year looking into KVM switches and came away feeling it was not worth the investment. Perhaps I've been misled? I read a lot of issues with cheap ones and the high quality ones cost more than just buying a monitor that supports multiple connections and switching itself.
fuzzfactor
You are all correct if it works for you :)
I like using two identical miniPC's, one for each monitor.
Well, actually each monitor has two inputs and each PC two display outputs, and I had a couple extra cables so they are cross-connected too but that's besides the point.
Seems like RDP is almost intended to work like this from the beginning. Deficiencies are a lot easier to tweak side-by-side too.
Decades ago I just had to accept that a key purpose of introducing multi-partitioning to HDD's was so that multibooting from a single HDD would be extremely straightforward. And once set up, very closely mimics the hardware behavior of having a dedicated HDD or SSD for each of Windows and Linux, on the same PC.
Previously, with two different HDD's connected, each completely unaware of the other one upon power-up, when you reboot you can always use the motherboard's built-in BIOS boot menu to choose when you want to boot to a drive other than the one designated as the default choice.
That way there is nothing related to Windows on the Linux HDD at all, and nothing having to do with Linux on the Windows HDD. You can physically remove either drive before powering up and everything works completely dedicated to a single OS as expected, because each HDD is complete including its own boot files, exactly the same as it is in a non-multibooting arrangement.
As long as each HDD is capable of booting on its own, you choose the one you want, and that's the one that boots.
Well it actually took a while in the '90's before most motherboards had a built-in BIOS bootmenu to choose between different HDD's, but this feature became universal so users wouldn't have to physically reconnect their intended boot drive to the Primary Master cable. Which was the only bootable connection before the BIOS bootmenu made Secondary-connected HDD's as bootable as Primaries, your choice. You don't really have to get the most out of the electronics, but some things like this are really nice to have.
Now this was the time when it got real fancy, and both Windows and Linux bootloaders were crafted to accommodate "chainloading" from a Primary HDD to a non-Primary, so physical reconnection would not be necessary to accomplish the same behavior. This was ideal for all the remaining motherboards at the time which were not issued with a BIOS bootmenu. This is where you start to get a mixture of Windows and Linux on the same HDD, at least in the boot files. It doesn't have to be confusing, but it can be.
Once one set of boot files can boot either OS from any HDD, then each HDD no longer needs its own boot files, however that also means that those HDDs not having boot files would not boot if they are the only HDD connected.
I say the BIOS bootmenu is the fundamental that is best not abstracted too far.
Fortunately, multibooting to various SSD's using one single (Linux) bootloader [0] can be configured to have the same hardware workflow as choosing separate HDD's through the motherboard bootmenu.
And to be the most consistent I like to use the same workflow to choose from multiple partitions whether they are on the same HDD or not.
Now you can figure it's all moot, with separate miniPC's for Windows and Linux. Which really could be considered more of a luxury than multibooting a single-drive PC at will, and even more versatile than having two SSD's in the same PC.
But wait a minute, each one of these drives on each PC is a massive multibooter . . .
[0] The Windows bootloader works as always on MBR-layout SSD's on PC's supporting traditional BIOS mode, but still too defective under UEFI, where Microsoft drops the ball completely since Windows 8 in the key area of multibooting Linux. Which for decades was as easy as intended by the hardware design. But negative progress is accepted as progress by those who are supposed to be experts, as we have been convinced.
xupybd
Some of us have work that requires windows only applications.
typpilol
Exactly
Sorry boss I can't do work today, I decided to go full Linux and our CRM doesn't support it!
jamesnorden
You don't have a work machine?
fuzzfactor
Most office workers are not in software so most work machines are office machines. Having baseline Windows further encumbered by often-misguided IT approaches.
Every one of these needs more intense tweaking before it will run as well as the same offices 20 years ago.
Too bad most users are locked out and IT may not know how to do it or may not be motivated anyway.
It may even be at the point where less tweaking may now be needed for Linux to become a higher-performance office machine than Windows/Office was 20 years ago. With less undocumented effort than it would take to get the same performance from the latest Windows. But who's going to do it?
All other things are not being equal though, 20 years ago PC's were lower-performing hardware in a number of ways, so that probably should be brought under consideration.
But it just seems so unfair then.
tracker1
It's definitely neat and the UX is kinda slick... I tried it last weekend. Unfortunately, even basic usage seemed to fail. Launching Edge browser would create a window that was frozen, and no apparent way to recover.. closing left the outline in place, and there were issues with the integration itself. Trying to connect the "Desktop" option seemed to freeze. I was able to connect to the session via the integrated web view, it looked to be asking to allow the rdp connection.
I really didn't dig in any deeper than that... didn't match the use case my SO needed, so wound up having to revert back to Windows on her laptop.
I do hope it gets better... maybe with some more app/system integration on the Windows side of things.
d3Xt3r
What's her use case, if you don't mind me asking? Because a lot of Windows apps do work fine in Wine (some may require additional tweaks), so perhaps that could be an option.
tracker1
She is trying to use the TikTok streaming studio, or whatever it is called... I tried to get the Android version running via Waydroid and tried the WinBoat setup. Neither worked and after a couple hours of trying and the nagging, I just installed Windows 11 again as requested and handed the laptop back. I'm no longer tech support for that device.
Later found out, could have done some rigging to get OBS working with it, but I think that would have been too far beyond her comfort zone anyway. Having to run a shell script to plug into OBS on top of using OBS itself. (Going to avoid further ranting and stop now)
Edit: to be clear, I didn't get the app installed in WinBoat as I didn't get passed the limitation that Edge wouldn't load properly. Just with that hiccup I determined it was unfit for her usage... that isn't even getting into the potential issue(s) with mic/camera access.
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bapak
It's always great to see software websites without a damn screenshot of the software doing its job.
It says it can run office, maybe show me how it looks? How can you sell "seamless" and then don't demonstrate. I don't get it.
Pesthuf
This! Does it render Windows‘ windows individually on the Linux desktop, with integration into alt-tab, the Ubuntu dock etc. or does it just render one big VM window? How is that not shown on the site.
GaryBluto
But don't worry, it's got emoticons and a "slick" design, you don't need information!
cadamsdotcom
Absolutely love seeing these projects that put a friendly face on amazing open source software so people can more easily run Linux and use the software they still need to..
Any similar work underway to get macOS apps running on Linux?
softfalcon
I wish it was possible to see macOS running well on Linux, but there are a lot of loopholes to jump through to make that happen.
1. Apple makes running their software on non-Mac hardware illegal
2. For all the hate Windows gets, virtualizing it to run all over the place is normal and expected by industry at large… the same is only becoming recently true for macOS
3. There is a strong financial interest at Apple to get in the way of this as much as possible
4. Apple is trying to reinvent Docker so people stop using Docker on their Mac’s with their native “Apple Containers” implementation
Due to this… I foresee it taking a while for this to become common for mac apps + Linux
d3Xt3r
macOS does in fact runs well* on Linux, see: https://github.com/dockur/macos
Edit: Well-ish, as there's no GPU acceleration as noted in the comments below.
GranPC
For some values of "well". No GPU acceleration means it's incredibly sluggish and plagued with rendering issues. There's also some sort of incompatibility around clock sources, which can result in the VM crashing during startup if you assign more than one core to it. There are ways around it but if you're unlucky enough they result in a massive perf hit.
softfalcon
This is cool, I'd be a bit hesitant to sign into my Apple Account with it though. I've had Apple shut down my account with Hackintosh's in the past.
moondev
quickemu makes it pretty easy to launch macOS on kvm. I was able to launch it on my framework chromebook from the Linux terminal
freedomben
a bit off-topic, but how do you like the framework chromebook? Very seriously considering one. I have several frameworks running Fedora, but my daughter really wants a chromebook...
d3Xt3r
Not quite similar, but there's darling, which only supports CLI apps for now: https://github.com/darlinghq/darling
If you want a full macOS VM there's dockur's project: https://github.com/dockur/macos but no seamless mode support yet.
heavyset_go
macOS doesn't support doing rootless RDP with macOS apps. If you're going to be using a full desktop anyway, skip RDP entirely and use an accelerated graphics view.
carlesfe
An actual explanation of what the software does, from their Github repo
> WinBoat is an Electron app which allows you to run Windows apps on Linux using a containerized approach. Windows runs as a VM inside a Docker container, we communicate with it using the WinBoat Guest Server to retrieve data we need from Windows. For compositing applications as native OS-level windows, we use FreeRDP together with Windows's RemoteApp protocol.
monocasa
Why do they need a docker container and a vm?
onehair
because windows isn't bloat enough /runs-away-as-this-joke-might-not-be-funny-toall-xD
GoblinSlayer
VM runs the actual thing, and docker is package manager.
monocasa
But my read is that the electron application is out of the docker container. It's distributed as an appimage.
So then what is the docker container doing?
throitallaway
Maybe I would call Docker an installation and running method rather than a package manager in this case.
westurner
> [Flatpak, Podman?]: This is on our to-do list, but it'll take some effort because Flatpak is pretty isolated from the rest of the system and apps, so we'd have to find a way to expose installed apps, the Docker binary, and the Docker socket, and many other utilities
Vinegar wraps WINE in a Flatpak.
The vscode flatpak works with podman-remote packaged at a flatpak too; or you can call `host-spawn` or `flatpak-spawn` like there's no container/flatpak boundary there.
Nested rootless containers do work somehow; presumably with nested /etc/subuids for each container?
Distrobox passes a number of flags necessary to run GUI apps in rootless containers with Podman. Unfortunately the $XAUTHORITY path varies with each login on modern systemd distros.
everyone
Ive been on DOS and Windows since the 80's... Recently I was mainly using Windows 10 LTSC, but now I'm finally transitioning to Linux Mint as my daily driver.. It's just so *good* .. The functionality, ease of use, and "just works" aspects of it are better than any other OS imo. It shows what can happen when a small team works with the goal of just making the OS good and giving it as much functionality as possible vs when a giant corp works on it with all sorts of random goals and agendas.
I am a game dev and avid gamer, so that was the only thing keeping me on Windows, but with stuff like Wine, Bottles, Proton, Lutris, + stuff like this coming out that reason is fading away.
BuckRogers
I’m also an 80s DOS user. Commodore actually before that. And yes Linux Mint is the standout. There are people in the Linux community though that resist it for various reasons. It’s like trying to round up cats.
I read all of the comments here and I see an awful lot of people that stand on their heads to avoid using Windows, yet it seems they want what Windows offers.
I’ve used many distro’s over the decades. But for a user, Mint is the best. Unfortunately for someone who is anti-Windows, it’s also the closest thing to a Windows clone!
I refuse to dual boot and run all of the emulation software. But what killed it for me was the most popular competitive games. The most advanced anti-cheat software that keeps gaming fun from cheaters is only on Windows. So that’s what I use exclusively. Those more effective anti-cheat mechanisms are never going to be on Linux. Windows is increasingly going to be where it’s at for desktop gaming unless a guy wants to move over to consoles. There’s just no real answer for this.
tamimio
The rule of thumb is if you can use Linux and you don't have a very weird niche application that only runs on Windows, then you should migrate to Linux. There are plenty of good entry-level distributions and all sorts of applications too. Sooner or later, Windows will be abandonware with all the BS they will integrate, from always online to AI scanning all your files, so be proactive. I think even macOS is better than Windows in the current day, and you don't need a fortune too. The other day I found a mid-2012 MacBook Pro for $15 at the thrift store, installed 16GiB RAM and an SSD that I both had around, and installed the latest Sequoia with OpenCore Legacy Patcher, and voila, works just like new!
worik
> Sooner or later, Windows will be abandonware with all the BS they will integrate, from always online to AI scanning all your files
I really hope this is correct. If there were any justice in the world....
But, oh my aching head, the IT industry seems to be fill of people barely holding on, hoping and preying nobody calls their bluff.
To these people, who hold a death grip on middle management, "nobody gets fired for buying microsoft" is a real thing
Quality be dammed, job security rules the roost
cap11235
Active Directory alone means that its going to be another COBOL where it takes a few generations to die off, as its originators die.
mcswell
Until that day, there unfortunately ARE niche applications. Fieldworks Language Explorer (aka FLEx) is software developed by SIL Inc for doing linguistic fieldwork (dictionaries, text, grammars, parsing...) in minority languages. There's nothing like it. There was a Linux version, but they ran out of funding; I've used it, but reportedly there are major bugs.
FLEx won't run under Wine, but I'll be trying this WinBoat to see if it works.
(You may have heard of SIL's fonts, which they also make freely available. The fonts work for a huge variety of scripts, including the Nasta'liq Arabic style that other fonts don't touch, and Burmese, which from a writing standpoint is truly crazy.)
insane_dreamer
The problem is that some of these niche Windows-only applications rely on drivers that are only available for Windows. In which case, migrating to Linux is challenging at best and impossible at worst.
ardanur
Their FAQ mentions the Looking Glass Indirect Display Driver (IDD). That is something to look forward to. Looking Glass will work with an iGPU setup once IDD is released (but no 3D acceleration).
What Looking Glass managed to do was get video memory sharing to work between the guest Windows compositor and a client running on the host (with qemu). Unfortunately, it apparently requires an out-of-tree Linux kernel driver that they call kvmfr. You can apparently still share non-video memory without kvmfr, which may hopefully yield adequate performance.
fdsffsvafvv
If anyone from the project reads this:please don't load Discord on the front page of your website.
Discord is often used as C2 server, and in many secure environments will trigger alerts when someone tries to load it. So loading your webpage triggers an alert (luckily the alert in our business come to me, but the point stands).
At least hide it behind a link.
GaryBluto
I'd argue that software projects having a Discord chat room at all is incredibly unprofessional; it's like if a DIY boating club required you to go to an Chuck-E-Cheese to communicate.
fsh
I always used a Virtual Box VM for Office. After giving this a quick try, I'm impressed. The dockered VM is much less bloated then a normal Windows install, and somehow running the apps via a local RDP connection is significantly smoother than the Virtual Box graphics stack.
esseph
I have had much better experience running virt-manager instead of virtualbox if you want a GUI to run / manage vms in terms of performance. YMMV
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This is just a Windows VM with extra tooling. Makes it look slick, doesn't make it "Windows apps on Linux".
Similar projects exist for gaming for example Looking Glass, which also uses a Windows VM on KVM (the "Windows in Docker" thing is a bit of a lie, Windows doesn't run in the container, Windows runs on KVM on the host kernel).
UX wise, this is similar to RAIL.
That's not to say that this isn't neat, but it's also not something new (we still have two flavours: API simulation/re-implementation and running the OS [windows]). If this was a new, third flavour, that would be quite the news (in-place ABI translation?).