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parasti
isk517
I have been asking myself this question repeatedly for the last few months. Windows 11 offers absolutely nothing of substance over Windows 10 and more often than not manages to be less pleasant to use. The Office 365 eco system is a complete disaster of half implemented ideas, most of which can be described as would be pretty useful if it actually worked as advertised(power automate), wasn't abandoned in a half complete state(loosp), or if they implemented simple feature requests that the userbase is asking for(sharepoint). To top it all off they seem to be working tirelessly to ruin the products that actually work and are in demand, every couple of months they threaten to force users to switch to the 'modern' Outlook despite the fact that it still lacks a lot of features that are the very reason businesses still use Outlook in the first place.
sharpshadow
Windows 11 has round corners.
hulitu
This. The best feature ever. Microsoft might not be able to draw shadows, scrollbars, window borders but they sure know how to round corners. Wanna exit word by pressing exit in the menu (i.e. clean exit). No way. You must press the "X" on the upper right window corner and hope that the corners rounding Microsoft engineers handle the "WndClose" message gracefully.
fxtentacle
Someone wanted to make it kid-safe. Except they didn't notice that they are designing a software UI and not a wooden cupboard.
pjmlp
Security knobs that Windows 10 lacks, better support for containers, WSL features, and DirectX 12 capabilities.
Granted, not everyone cares about them.
_DeadFred_
I find I no longer integrate new apps/technology flows into my life because they either won't be supported or will be enshitified/weaponized against me. The future kind of sucks. My smart home is barely hanging on to turning my lights on at dusk (something photo-sensors for lights just did without issue from the 90s on). Android just broke my phone, I can no longer just say 'hey android, play the news' and have it play headlines from real new organization that I specify. Instead it grabs news from I don't know where and gives me Google Gemini approved summaries (that Google states may or may not be accurate).
southernplaces7
>My smart home is barely hanging on to turning my lights on at dusk (something photo-sensors for lights just did without issue from the 90s on).
Presumably, you were already well aware just how much new technology and apps tend towards hostility and enshittification, given what you describe.. So why in the world would you have wired up your very home to be a "smart" home? Did you really expect the technology for such a juicy trove of user data so easily, parasitically collected through manipulation to ever have a chance in hell of not being just as awful as anything else?
ajmurmann
Recently I locked into my old Windows computer after not having done so in about a year and noticed a weird brown symbol prominently in the task bar. It was a promotion for world chocolate day...
andriesm
Classic! So true!
BoredPositron
Microsoft has spent the past two decades repositioning Windows from a flagship operating system into primarily a delivery vehicle for cloud services, subscriptions, and integrated apps. They are just not interested in providing the user with an OS anymore. For them it's a necessary evil nothing more.
pixl97
Simply put the economics are behind a locked down click and drool style operating system with a manufacture controlled store that takes 30% of all gross.
The faster we can kill the Apple and Google store monopolies the faster we'll go back to having operating systems/phones that we can at least do something with.
We still have Linux for now, but as we know signed bootloaders present a very large risk.
chankstein38
I miss usable operating systems that don't feel like they were built for cavemen while people who know how to use them get to click more and more "Additional properties" buttons/links to get to actual useful settings.
distances
> We still have Linux for now, but as we know signed bootloaders present a very large risk.
Thankfully there is a fair number of Linux-first companies now, so I'm not that worried. It's a real business case now. Years ago there were none, you couldn't even buy a laptop without Windows.
N19PEDL2
I think at Microsoft they know they can do whatever they want with Windows and nothing will change.
In corporate, no manager cares about the operating system their employees use. Unless there's a significant drop in productivity by using Windows, no one will bother with the cost of switching to another OS.
In the private sector, most people buy their computers straight off the shelf, i.e. with Windows. Here at HN, we're tech enthusiasts, but out there those who know what "Debian with GNOME" means are very few, and the rest will at most complain a little about how Windows has become, but then they'll just continue to use it.
brewdad
The rest of the world, outside HN and similar techy online communities, largely doesn't know Linux exists. They know Windows and Mac. Macs are expensive and unfamiliar. Windows machines are cheap and can be bought at Walmart.
x0x0
They're also currently nakedly taking bribes from hardware manufacturers to force upgrades to Windows 11, creating a wave of completely unnecessary hardware purchases. I'm trying to figure out how to help a nontechnical parent run a bypass install to avoid throwing a perfectly fine laptop in the garbage.
It's so necessary to the functioning of Windows 11 that it can be bypassed and Windows 11 works fine. Sure...
mips_avatar
Windows exists to perpetuate the next promotion cycle of people working inside of Windows.
garylkz
Remember Microsoft Edge? Remember Microsoft Teams? Remember Dev Home? Remember Copilot? Yeah it's the same thing everytime.
pjmlp
People have to remember corporations aren't people, and when there is a change of direction, doesn't mean they got rid of all employees responsible for the old ways.
self_awareness
How are corporations not people?
Who runs them if not people?
prism56
My kid won't need a laptop for a few more years but i've been using linux and i'm planning on making them use linux. The privacy implications and learning potential could be worth it from an early age.
freedomben
I have done this, and in many ways it has been one of the best parenting decisions I've made. My oldest is a better CLI user now than most engineers I work with, and it came almost entirely from him exploring the system and getting excited about all the cool things he can do. It also made it super easy for me to teach him more self-service things, everything from looking at system logs to see why the xbox controller or even the USB keyboard isn't working, to learning how the software stack is assembled.
For my other kids that don't care about that sort of stuff, even they have become very capable computer users. It's been easy for them to learn Windows and ChromeOS at school. I already see the same pattern of diving deeper developing with my youngest too.
One of the most rewarding things I've experienced as a parent is seeing the hacker spirit still very much alive.
andriesm
Great way to create future technologist or someone who will seamless use powertools to amplify whatever else they choose to do in life.
Still this is the crux of the linux experience and why I still don't main it - having to read logs to understand why an Xbox controller doesn't work.
Or a million other things like this. Sure it keeps getting better, by a lot. But the number of rough edge cases still is an issue every time I try out lonux again after lots of people tell me "Today Linux is different" - they always tell me and I always find, no it's still a thing you will still need to go spelunking in tech wizardry to do things that mostly just works on some other mainstream OS, like macos or even windows.
rtkwe
Make sure they have at least a passing familiarity with Windows and it's apps because like it or not Windows is still the default in the school and working world so they'll have to work with that stuff to some degree. Otherwise go for it.
Side note how's open office compatibility these days? Last time I tried it yeeears ago there were still compatibility problems that would have made group projects hard.
Gud
As a long term *nix user(FreeBSD and Linux) forced to use Windows for work,
I observe that every few years Windows is completely changed. It’s a total hodgepodge of decades of crap. That’s the only thing you need to know.
freedomben
Purely anecdata, but my kids only use Linux at home and hadn't used anything else until they got (Windows and ChromeOS) computers at school, and they were able to get going quite easily. Honestly I think learning to use a mouse and keyboard is the hardest part since most of these kids grew up using tablets and phones as their first "computers."
Office compatibility still kind of sucks. It's very usable, but still quite a few papercuts. In my kids case though, Google Docs pretty much solves that problem so it's largely been a non-issue.
nobody9999
>Side note how's open office compatibility these days? Last time I tried it yeeears ago there were still compatibility problems that would have made group projects hard.
While Open Office still exists (and is being actively supported), LibreOffice (forked from OpenOffice fifteen years ago) gets more frequent updates, is more broadly used, and is widely preferred over OpenOffice these days.
I use it and it's a nice replacement for the Microsoft Office suite. In fact, I have Microsoft Office and prefer LibreOffice over it.
I suggest giving LibreOffice[0] a look. Many of the compatibility issues have been resolved and it works nicely.
happymellon
> Make sure they have at least a passing familiarity with Windows and it's apps because like it or not Windows is still the default in the school and working world so they'll have to work with that stuff to some degree
Don't bother. I would have said that I was "familiar with Windows", I used 3.11, NT 4.0, XP, Vista, and 10 to a lesser extent and my wife needed help with her work laptop. Honestly Windows 11 is significantly different and apparently hostile enough that I couldn't find anything.
ranger207
When I was in college a few years ago everyone did group projects in Google Docs, so Libreoffice compatibility was a moot point
brewdad
Absolutely. My kid just finished an engineering degree from a well respected institution. Early on in the intro programming classes, about half of his class was unfamiliar with file system structures. Chromebooks and iPads in school and at home meant they had never really encountered them.
There were plenty of other "techy" things that older generations take for granted but kids aren't learning about unless parents show them because they are hidden behind modern OS/software interfaces and usually locked down to prevent discovery.
novaleaf
anecdote time: I have a Desktop and Laptop running Win11. Over the last month I noticed that when typing in notepad.exe, IT DROPS ABOUT 5% OF CHARACTERS TYPED!!!! On both my computers. How on earth Microsoft could F-Up Notepad (of all things) so badly that it fails at the ONE THING it's supposed to do, I have no idea. At the same time, I notice there is now Copilot integrated with Notepad.... coincidence?
hulitu
Don't worry. Copilot is just summarizing what you wrote. /s
philipwhiuk
This is a great sign that uptake is low and someone needs a good Q4 on their performance figures for bonus season.
Insanity
I've tried the google sheets 'gemini' integration. And it is honestly not usable at all. It hallucinates much more than if I just download the data as CSV, upload to the actual gemini, and then ask the question.
It was so (comically) bad that I ended up sharing a lot of screenshots on my process trying to make it work with my team just for entertainment value lol.
One time I asked it to do a diff between "col A" and "col B" and it started telling me it was a "goddess of light" blabla. I'm assuming because the random values in col A and col B completely polluted it's context window so it spewed nonsense back.
EDIT: I know the article is about the MSFT counterpart products. I've not used those with Copilot so can't speak to their quality.
charlieyu1
I got an email from a client about a meeting at 2PM on Gmail. Their AI automatically added an 2AM slot to my calendar and it cannot even be removed
falcor84
Going on a tangent from a tangent, I think that the 2*12h clock is a horrible idea that should have been rejected from the start, and the Product Manager who proposed it 3 thousand years ago should have been immediately put into the dungeons and fed only once a day at 12PM. Anyway, now we know better and there's no good excuse not to use a 24h clock as the default across all systems.
bitwize
> it started telling me it was a "goddess of light" blabla
The dimensional merge is real! Did it also start talking about how it's a Hyperdimension Neptunia CPU?
Insanity
I feel like I'm missing a reference haha :D
layman51
Do you have any other small examples of stuff I could try out to test-drive the Gemini integration for Google Sheets? My colleague tried it out to get it to make a chart, but it ended up failing at the task. It was hard for me to evaluate it though because it seems like when you use Gemini inside of Sheets, there's no way to share the conversation. That's horrifying, especially if it is responding back with delusions of grandeur.
Insanity
I didn't really have any success with it. It just failed in different ways, usually small issues (like it only has context on the current sheet, so working with multiple sheets is an instance no-no).
But the goddess hallucination was the wildest and funniest one.
ToucanLoucan
I hear constantly how in-demand this shit supposedly is and then every time I look around a corner LLMs are being stuffed into every damn thing and I'm left wondering how much of this alleged "engagement" is just because LLMs are in fucking everything now and it's impossible to run a lot of mainstream software without a few calls going to one or another of them.
I have never, ever, in my entire life, seen a tech work so hard to be everywhere while simultaneously not being very useful.
estimator7292
I saw someone on here the other day honestly insisting that people just don't know what they want and need to be shown the new options.
No product in our entire history has been so aggressively pushed into everyone's face. If there's a person alive in modern society who hasn't had 4000 AI apps blasted at them... where are they and how do I achieve this nirvana?
ToucanLoucan
I really get sick of the comparisons to the iPhone and AWS and such.
Those things solved problems. Nobody needed to be convinced an iPhone was a good idea; it was an iPod, a PDA, and a newspaper stuffed into a device the size of a credit card that you carried around with you and worked no matter where you were. That's a GREAT idea. No one needed to be convinced about what made an iPhone (or Android, or even Blackberry) a useful and good thing.
Conversely, AWS made starting web businesses no longer require on premises servers, or really knowing anything about servers. You picked what you needed, and if you needed more at some point, you picked that. You could even dynamically allocate and deallocate servers on an incredibly widely available and robust data-center backend. That's HUGE. Numerous massive companies today may not have ever gotten started if not for AWS and it's now making far more money than Amazon's retail business does, and we know how huge it is because East-1 went down some years back, and a third of the freaking Internet stopped working correctly.
What problem even remotely on this level does an LLM solve?
hdNLouie
An air-gapped 386, ASUS eee 900hd 901.. are my primary boxen, distained `netbooks' running SUSE 11.1 2008. I've idle 20 ARM rpi's, other 486's. My stack is emacs perl 5.0, gcc, TeX, pari/GP, maxima, and beautiful gpm transporter among tty terminals.
One 386 netbook runs xbuntu w/ firefox to waste hours in the dangerous wild except for HN. It's all a happy arrested-development `Smell of Teen Spirit' nook I continue growing in.
distances
Multiple older people have asked me how to get rid of the WhatsApp AI widgets. They have two on the main view: AI search field, and a colorful AI button. Nobody wants these, people actively reach out on how to disable these misfeatures, but somehow they must be pushed front and center.
ryandrake
Nothing says "this product is useful and people want it" quite like having to force it onto users' computers.
chankstein38
And having people complain when you do it lol if they were forcing a new hip version of minesweeper no one would care. But since it's AI garbage being forced on us, we're all mad.
isk517
Just constantly repeat 'in-demand' until the dumbest executive at every major company is forcing some LLM product into every part of the operation in order to 'remain competitive'. I've seen first hand how useful AR can be for actually real world work by enhancing a flesh and blood human being's ability to do their job and the best device on the market is still the 6 year old Hololens 2. Microsoft just completely abandoned it in favor of something that most of the time says you the trouble of having to type something into a search bar.
dawnerd
And how are these companies measuring engagement? If they make it easy to accidentally click one of their "AI" buttons, does that count? Like in Clickup they put AI features on basically every single view they could and its incredibly easy to click one of them as their UI slowly loads from all the other third party junk they've added in.
It should be a huge red flag if companies have to force stuff on users.
undefined
flerchin
lol you must be new here. To me this rhymes with web3 (kodak coin), web2 (google circle), and also web1 (pets.com). There will be a lot of failures, but the companies that get established in the space will be eeconomic goliaths.
nemomarx
what are the goliaths from web3?
I feel like that one still hasn't really worked out, and I do occasionally use Bitcoin to buy things
ludicrousdispla
You forgot about VR headsets.
duxup
Massive uptake in installations! Bonus time!
Reminds me of when I worked at a company once who hired a new marketing VP.
First quarter he showed up he hired a bunch of cronies.
Second quarter he announced that their new YouTube ads were so great now that NOBODY had ever chosen to skip their ads the entire second quarter. I saw the ads ... they had shortened all the youtube ads to the length that the ads were unskippable. Guaranteed "success".
PicassoCTs
[dead]
brookst
Q2 you mean? Would be pretty easy to look at their fiscal year before speculating something that makes no sense.
jahsome
The point is still perfectly valid. What's the use in being pedantic and rude?
brookst
They literally asserted that what we’re seeing right now is a result of people angling for end of calendar year bonuses. Which don’t exist.
Sorry if pointing that out is pedantic or rude, but it seems pretty material to the validity of the claim, at least to me.
undefined
undefined
BuildTheRobots
We get Copilot at work. From what I can see the Copilot app is just the Copilot web interface in its own container and webview, though I've not gone poking at it.
Considering the web page in a browser can easily eat >5gb RAM just to display a single conversation (it's honestly mind boggling; how can something use 5gb of memory and a noticeable amount of CPU just to display relatively little and lightly formatted text?), having it self-contained makes killing it to reclaim memory easy.
For those of you wanting to get more angry, the "menu key" on my new Thinkpad has the default action of Copilot and the Copilot logo printed on it. On the other hand, he Ctrl key is finally in the -r-i-g-h-t- left place at least...
0cf8612b2e1e
Brother, I feel you on the thinkpad Ctrl key. I cannot understand how someone thought that was an acceptable idea.
SSLy
at least it has forever been swappable with fn
BuildTheRobots
Not just swappable, but in a lot of corporate laptops with a locked down CMOS, the swappability is still one of the shortcuts that a user level user can change in the BIOS.
I thought Ctrl being in the right place on the new keyboard would be nice - sadly it seems to be the worst Thinkpad keyboard I've ever used... not even sure why, but all the spacing just seems slightly but very noticeably wrong.
dade_
Web app is faster, has more features, easier to use. Copilot key is useless, it took me a while to figure out how to get it to open the M365 app, instead of the corporate blocked personal one, and then I used it zero times. Never think to use it and I found it has no practical purpose, except Microsoft marketing.
BuildTheRobots
Interesting. It prompted me to install the microsoft store version which, when launched manually is identical to the web version. As the keyboard key brought up a web window telling me to install it, I assumed it just launched that.
gnabgib
Less clickbait coverage from ghacks: Copilot App will install automatically on Windows for many users, but there are exceptions https://www.ghacks.net/2025/09/15/copilot-app-will-install-a... (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45249782)
Notably:
- You can opt out (Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates > Windows Components > Windows Copilot > Enable the "Turn off Windows Copilot" policy)
- You won't get it if you're in the EU
- You'll only get it if you have an M365 app installed (not all windows users)
ndiddy
I don’t think it’s clickbait to say that Microsoft is forcing Copilot onto people’s computers just because they let you opt out if you know exactly where to go in the group policy editor, or that they know they can’t get away with pushing their AI service over Windows Update to force adoption in areas that actually bother regulating tech companies. I’m tired of Microsoft pulling bullshit like this and then people say “oh but you can turn it off if you dig through the group policy editor” or “you can opt out if you make this specific registry key”. Maybe I don’t enjoy having an adversarial relationship with my computer.
scuff3d
Microsoft is constantly trying to push the envelope to see what they can get away with. Anyone defending this kind of crap hasn't been paying attention for the last 20 friggin years
ThrowawayR2
It's "your computer" but it's "their OS". Go ahead and switch to Linux but the "systemd / snap packages / telementry etc. is being forced on my distro" complaints is exactly the same "adversarial relationship with my computer"(sic).
If you want things exactly your way, there's the Gentoo route if you don't mind supporting it yourself.
dabockster
I’ve been playing around with Fedora KDE more lately and it’s made me realize how vertically integrated Windows is. Like there’s all these edge cases (too many to list) that Windows has taken care of years ago, whereas on Linux you’re usually downloading some 3rd party app that feels rough when installed. Or it’s something the kernel expects a driver to implement, but Windows handles it natively in Microsoft’s code.
When you think of it in a supply chain sense, Linux is one giant outsourcing operation and a whole bunch of “not my problem” project management styles.
soraminazuki
Most Linux users don't have an adversarial relationship with systemd.
KronisLV
I feel like one could imagine some hypothetical Linux distro that works out of the box, has some baseline level of coherency and polish without you having to get your hands dirty, and also hasn’t been enshittified.
I have no idea what distro fits the bill the best, but surely it’s not like the only two options are: “be treated with no respect as the user” and “sink all of your time into into fixing things up”
Like how Linux Mint doesn’t force snaps on you like Ubuntu does. Probably not it, but one step of many in the right direction. Plain Debian is probably pretty close.
oeitho
Quick correction: You won't get it if you're in the EEA, which the EU is a subset of.
Sincerely, a Norwegian guy who thinks the difference is important.
RajT88
A clean windows install these days comes with those apps. It is there by default.
I would swear I removed copilot from a Dell laptop I just purchased for my father, and it came back after a major update. I could be wrong.
WarOnPrivacy
> I would swear I removed copilot from a Dell laptop I just purchased for my father, and it came back after a major update. I could be wrong.
I've had feature-update crapware get reinstalled twice, some reinsallations happen only after a reboot and/or 5-10min delay. So upgrade, clean. Reboot, clean again. Reboot, wait 10 min, clean again.
This during the last year and for dozens of machines.
RajT88
OneDrive is very persistent. Every major upgrade seems like.
Didn't they get hauled in front of congress for stuff like this back in the 90's?
I feel like they are playing with fire. Once anti-trust comes back into vogue, this is going to be big trouble for them.
redbell
> You won't get it if you're in the EU
I'm dreaming of a day to come where all people on earth get a bare minimum of freedom to install, remove and disable whatever piece of software on their devices. As a non-EU citizen, I have to confess I'm having some jealous feeling of European citizens because they have a superior authority fighting big companies on behalf of them.
eastbound
You may benefit from a non-socialist economy. I pay my best engineer 60k€, so 39.9 after tax, total cost 90k€ for me, and he couldn’t find an MD (the dedicated family doctor - so he has to pay any doctor with a 15€ surplus).
In exchange, we go to the Theater (classic, not movies) for 30€ and we don’t have Copilot on our computer. We don’t have the translation on Airpods, and we have to click all cookie banners.
If I had a visa for the USA, I’d be there.
IAmBroom
> he has to pay any doctor with a 15€ surplus
That's the fee charged for giving you aspirin in a US hospital. I can't imagine why you think his US medical access would be better.
mrguyorama
>he has to pay any doctor with a 15€ surplus
Which is less than the co-pay you pay on good US insurance.
>I pay my best engineer 60k€
Why don't you pay them more?
sillyfluke
>we go to the Theater (classic, not movies) for 30€
Now do broadway in New York. Hell, do off-broadway in new york and it's either barely the same price or even more expensive. Are you sarcastically making the opposite point, I can't tell.
currency
That setting is under User Configuration on my Win11 Pro PC, so look in both.
croes
It’s not you can opt-out, it‘s you have to opt-out. Imagine every software vendor would install its software as a opt-out. MS abuses its power over the OS
sherburt3
4 levels of nesting is pretty low compared to the average windows setting
undefined
sorokod
"The strong do what they can, the weak suffer what they must."
masfoobar
My daughter was given a pretty nice laptop by her grandparents a few years ago. It came with Windows 10. I installed things like Gimp, Blender, FreeCAD... just to open her eyes on what she can do.
She has used in sparingly.
Recently, she comes up to me and says "Dad! I cannot run this program". I cannot remember what the message was but it was something about parents permissions. I did not set Windows up but she did not have this problem before. It looks like it had upgraded to Windows 11 and knows about that the main user is under a certain age. It must have installed things I have no agreed with, starting with Copilot.
Once I saw Windows 11 on the screen I started to second guess what installing Windows 11 must be like today. Honestly I cannot remember the last time I did a full install of Windows. Maybe.. maybe Windows 7. I would not be surprised if you have to sign in to a Microsoft account, now. LOL!
I told her that I would backup her work and install something else on there. I said it will look a little different but you should still be able to login to your homework, etc.. as it is all web based. Also.. I said that Gimp, Blender and FreeCAD can still be used.
I explained that, at School, you are likely to be using Windows 11 and MS Office. At home, you will have something similar enough, like LibreOffice.
With that I ended up installing Debian with GNOME and she really likes it. It has been 3 weeks, now -- and so far.. so good.
Honestly, the way Microsoft are going.. I am just waiting for businesses to start mocking the idea of an alternative. That would be a massive shock... not just average joes switching on home machines.
LtdJorge
Yes, they force you to use a Microsoft account for W11. You can disable WiFi or disconmect the cable, and then it'll let you use a local account. Or you can use Rufus for "burning" the image, which creates an OOBE file for you disabling those (if you check the boxes).
addandsubtract
While we're on the topic, I recommend anyone setting up Windows to use winutil[0] to disable and declutter their Windows installation.
w4rh4wk5
What's your experience with FreeCAD? I've tried to use it multiple times for architectural stuff or 3D printing and never managed to put together anything usable.
I switched to Sweet Home 3D for the architectural stuff and DesignSpark Mechanical (sadly no Linux version) for 3D printing stuff.
daveguy
Have you tried FreeCAD since release 1.0 came out? It has a much improved user interface. I had some trouble with importing files pre-1.0, but on new projects it is much more usable. They are inching closer to SolidWorks, but still a while to go. I would love to see collab/versioning tools in FreeCAD because you have to pay a whole other fee for that in SolidWorks and git isn't great for binaries (I use git-LFS).
masfoobar
^ This
I am more into Blender than I am FreeCAD, but it has improved a lot over the years.
There are some good (modern) tutorials on FreeCAD.. there are a couple of gotchas to look out for.
w4rh4wk5
Huh. No I've not used FreeCAD since 1.0, guess I need to have another look.
hagbard_c
The harder they squeeze...
I installed Linux - Debian 13 with the Gnome desktop - on a few machines which used to only run Windows. These machines are used by non-technical family members aged 14 to 50. When starting the machine they get the choice between booting either Debian or Windows with files on the older Windows installs being available from within the Linux sessions.
I recently checked which system was used most and was surprised to see that this ended up being Debian, on some machines Windows was not even started after I explained the workings of the machines. Linux has been 'ready for the desktop' for decades now while Microsoft is doing its best to make Windows less and less suitable for general-purpose desktop use. Even their former strongholds have withered, especially gaming is now better done on Linux than on recent Windows iterations. I suspect they know this and are trying to reap the last remaining fruit before the plantation succumbs to the self-inflicted disease since I see no other explanation for their clearly user-hostile actions.
tracker1
I agree that Linux has been fine for Desktop use for most people for some while. With two caveats, the user doesn't want to install random AAA competitive multiplayer games, and the user doesn't have to administer the system themselves.
AfterHIA
I miss those innocent days in the early 2000's when Microsoft was still evil but the internet's non-ubiquity meant they couldn't realistically expect to force this kind of thing on their users.
Reality is really in a bad place when kids who grew up listening to Franz Ferdinand are nostalgic for Windows Vista. It's like a Slovenian nostalgic for Tito.
lupusreal
You know it's great software when they shove it down your throat instead of making you pay extra for it.
1970-01-01
"Don't worry about people stealing an idea. If it's original, you will have to ram it down their throats."
lupusreal
Sure, maybe, but Anthropic and OpenAI are selling theirs.
dade_
My work PC has the app, because but like Onedrive and NewOutlook, the Windows app has fewer features, more bugs, and is more difficult to use that the Web app. At this rate Linux with Microsoft Web apps will have superior feature set than their 'Native' Windows apps.
lenerdenator
Huh. I have a force install of GNU/Linux on my Windows machine scheduled for October as well. That's a weird coincidence.
Insanity
At some point I'm sure they'll force Microsoft Recall on everyone. But they'll do so piecemeal so there's less outrage.
kjkjadksj
To any microsoft workers: is this stuff really getting zero pushback internally? It is clear power users don’t want it and that is sort of who copilot is pitched towards vs the masses.
protoster
Last time MS cared about power users was in Windows 7.
nobody9999
>To any microsoft workers: is this stuff really getting zero pushback internally? It is clear power users don’t want it and that is sort of who copilot is pitched towards vs the masses.
I imagine (based on my experiences as a now-former MS employee) that someone's (or some group's) bonus is tied to the number of Copilot seats installed. Which makes them oblivious/uncaring as to who might push back or how a user might feel. That's muh bonus, brah!
And since CoPilot is high profile, it's gets lots of support from the C-suite, limiting meaningful pushback. And here we are. I suggest learning to use gpedit if you don't already know how.
But don't worry, once bonuses are handed out, those same geniuses will find some other high profile initiative to boost their comp and level. Then we'll see some other square peg destructively jammed into a round hole.
mikestew
What makes you think the Windows group gives a shit about what some random in DevTools thinks about their product? There's probably all kinds of internal pushback, but I would question how much straw polling is being done.
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What's Microsoft thinking here? We got Windows on our kids' laptops and it's a pain to do anything with every time, just an amalgamation of decades worth of UIs held together with duct tape, looks terrible and performs even worse than it looks. When I'm thinking of the next big upgrade, Windows isn't even on the list of options anymore, and that's not even an ideological statement in any way.