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tbird24
I realize I should probably comment links to some of the better engineering roles we're currently featuring right now. BTW I should also note we don't take a % commission like Upwork, Toptal, etc. So if you get hired you'd work with the company directly and get paid by them direct.
Fractional CTO @ A Consumer Healthtech Marketplace 20 - 40 hrs | $175 - $200 / hr | Remote (USA only) https://www.fractionaljobs.io/jobs/chief-technology-officer-...
Senior AI Engineer @ A European Insurtech Startup 20 - 40 hrs / week | €85 - €100 / hr | Remote (CET +/- 6hrs) https://www.fractionaljobs.io/jobs/senior-ai-engineer-at-a-e...
Senior Full-stack Engineer @ A Consumer Social Startup 20 - 40 hrs / week | $125 - $150 / hr | Remote (EST +/- 5 hrs) https://www.fractionaljobs.io/jobs/senior-full-stack-enginee...
Staff Frontend Engineer @ An HR-tech Analytics Platform 20 - 40 hrs / week | $120 - $180 / hr | Remote (USA / Canada only) https://www.fractionaljobs.io/jobs/staff-frontend-engineer-a...
AI Engineer @ A Creator-focused AI Startup 10 - 15 hrs / week | $100 - $125 / hr | Remote (USA / Canada / Europe only) https://www.fractionaljobs.io/jobs/ai-engineer-at-a-creator-...
raggi
These prices seem very low.
jameslk
As someone who's done freelancing previously for years and also has run an agency previously for years, it really depends. I've certainly seen freelancers at double or triple these rates. If you already have clients, are well known, or you're good at selling the value of your time, you can ask for much higher. If you're just getting started or you're going through an agency, these rates seem pretty competitive. Also macro economic factors will change the equation and what you can ask for.
For those just getting started, my piece of advice is to be OK taking a lower rate initially, and just keep pushing it higher until you find resistance. If you're good at what you do, you will quickly find that you will get referrals (make sure to ask!) and can charge a ton more. It's a lot easier as a freelancer/contractor than a salaried employee since the market is much more liquid (you spend less time at one gig) and therefore you can test the waters with a higher rate much more often.
Regardless, what these companies list as what they will pay hourly isn't necessarily what you have to ask for. If you think about it from a negotiation perspective (and you have the ability to sell yourself), these are simply just the lower bound of what you can ask for.
jameshush
Great advice. Sometimes you need to take a step back to take three steps forward.
Referrals are the key.
jdlshore
That was my thought too. General rule of thumb for independent contracting is that you should take the annual salary you would normally make and chop off the zeroes to get the hourly rate. So 150K/yr becomes $150/hr. That’s about double the yearly salary and pays for your increased costs (payroll tax, healthcare, retirement, vacation) as well as your bench time between jobs.
Additionally, the going rate for an interim CTO was about $50K/month last time I checked, which doesn’t get you 40 hrs / week, so is north of $600/hr.
emseetech
My rule of thumb as a contractor is to take the hourly rate x2100 to get an equivalent full-time salary plus benefits, 401k, vacation, etc.
Fractional CTO | $368k - $420k
Senior AI Engineer | €179k - €210k
Senior Full-stack Engineer | $263k - $315k
Staff Frontend Engineer | $252k - $378k
AI Engineer | $210k - $263k
Given that the rates are decent. Not the best out there but decent. I'd consider this before Upwork where contract rates are criminally low.
LPisGood
The normal compensation for full time work is x2080. Do you actually value 401k, benefits, time off, etc at only 20 hours wage per year?
johnnyanmac
The roles seem very high too. I think "part time engineer" and figured these would be small gigs, or temp roles for specific tasks.
Not "CTO". Is anyone is a role of lead or higher (or AI engineers in general) having that bad a time finding work?
rkozik1989
Plenty of people are qualified to be CTOs but only a small handful of them actually become them.
Aurornis
For publicly-posted jobs, they are about right.
The higher rates come through trusted referrals. If you arrive at a company via referral from someone they trust, they will usually pay a lot more than hiring random people who apply.
TheCapeGreek
*For the North American perspective
jwilber
20-40 will certainly round up to a full time role, just with less pay and benefits than a regular job.
physix
I'm curious to know the business model. I assume you charge the companies, but I couldn't find the pricing model on the website.
Are you able say something about this?
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jcims
May want to look into finding fractional security roles as well. Lots of smaller companies don’t need full time security staff but *do* need help.
tbird24
Totally agree! We've featured a number of Fractional CISO roles.
hn_throwaway_99
I'm curious if anyone has any experience either as a "fractional CISO" or at a company who had one.
CISO is famously a "sacrificial lamb" sort of job, and it's certainly never one I would take on on a fractional basis (all of the risk but a lot less of the reward). I could understand having a fractional "security advisor" or "security lead", so maybe I'm just arguing about semantics, but again I'm primarily just interested in hearing about real world experiences with this sort of arrangement.
jcims
I know someone who actually enjoyed the fractional CISO role. Unless your goal is to move to a less expendable CxO role I actually see it as less of the risk and more of the reward.
VirusNewbie
I think there's an interesting market here. I know a couple moms who were exceptional FAANG level engineers who were willing to take huge pay cuts to go part time. They wanted to keep working but have enough time for their family.
I'm also aware of someone who made a lot of money in tech and doesn't really need to work but wants to stay in the game. They have told me they'd take a lot less money than they were making for a low salary and some equity if there weren't crazy high expectations for hours worked.
I don't think you could build a team of only part timers, but it really could be a solid way to round out a less experienced team without breaking the bank.
kgilpin
Yes. For someone who’s already financially comfortable, it’s nice to be able to stay in the game, keep working with great people, and make some money without having to deal with burnout.
Lots of people in tech like their jobs; they just like other things too. Personally I don’t know why I would want to stop working completely. It sounds boring. I love to build. Why ever stop?
chilldsgn
I'm not yet financially comfortable, but once I am, this is definitely how I see my life going. I love my work, but I don't love the job, I've gotten burned out too many times.
For people who want some more freedom with their time, part time is ideal. I want to have more time to experiment and learn. Currently there is just no time for it.
tbird24
Yup, I see these examples all the time. You're spot on.
TexanFeller
There’s definitely a need for this! I’ve been thinking hard recently about how I could go part time without leaving the industry. Almost all of the good SWE work situations I’ve heard of require full time. Even the contractors I’ve worked with in my career have been full time.
chilldsgn
Same. I hate the 9-5. It's soul-crushing for me. This is right up my alley!
Gualdrapo
Previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42425473
shooker435
How does this compare to https://www.hirefraction.com/about ?
I've noticed they market 'overemployment' as a benefit, is this platform similar?
tbird24
I'm personally not a huge fan of the over-employment trend, although I do see some arguments for it. A lot of the companies that are looking to hire on fractional jobs are quite explicit that they don't want folks that have full-time jobs (aka are over-employed) because of the negative connotations and consequences.
I'm familiar with Higher Fraction. I believe that the core difference is just that they're an agency that takes a percent markup on your hourly rate, so typically it's 20%.
I think the best software engineers don't need to do this, though, and they can find clients directly through their network or even through places like Fractional Jobs where we connect you directly with clients, and it's your relationship to own.
the-alchemist
They don't pay much. $5k-$6k/mo for half time.
hinkley
One of the things I always found a bit dumb about contracting houses is that the sales contact and the manager might work multiple projects but nobody else did.
Why shouldn’t I as a client get 10 hours a week from an architect and 5 hours a week from a security expert instead of paying for a whole one? We should be comparing notes with our consulting house colleagues on design problems and interpersonal dynamics, but we never have. Only when they project is going badly does anything like this happen, and then it’s done begrudgingly.
icelancer
This is great. I currently work a fractional role on top of being a founder. Wish it was more commonly available.
giantg2
Screw part time. The whole economy is moving towards part time, gig work, etc and it's terrible for most employees who need good wages and benefits.
tbird24
Fair, but I find, and I think this thread is evident, that a lot of folks are actually proactively seeking part-time work for one reason or another. If done correctly, you can actually make more money than an equivalent full-time role.
mothballed
It's more likely to work if you move to Micronesia or Mexico or something like that, easy places for citizens to move to with low cost of living so you can bid on par with the other gig workers in Pakistan/India/Romania etc.
I think trying to do gig work from the states unless it is Defense contracting you're quickly going to find someone buying that might not care what geography they're drawing from which puts USA based workers at a massive disadvantage.
reactordev
Or, you take a couple contracts and make more than you did full time. This doesn’t add up. If I’m part time 25 hours a week, I can squeeze another 25 hours a week in there. 2x my rate.
You can definitely do it.
apwell23
then you are competing with the whole world for those jobs
johnnyanmac
A total of 9 open part time roles, 2 of which are C-level executives, doesn't fill me with much confidence in addressing this issue. It's pretty much for those already at top or even retired to grab some side income at best.
giantg2
Even if workers were choosing more paprt time hours, it's only because they were able to make enough money in full-time employment (ususally) to build up enough money to only need part time work.
Trasmatta
I see way more full-time engineering jobs than part time
I'd love the opportunity to work 10-15 hours per week for a couple years as a sort of "semi-sabbatical". That could give me enough to pay for enough of my expenses to keep my savings going for long enough to make it worth it.
thot_experiment
Screw full time, I have a life and I want to enjoy more than 30% of it.
giantg2
Sure, but how do you pay for it?
bigDinosaur
If single with no dependents this is still very achievable on 4 days a week (and more than doubly so if dual income no kids), and it gets progressively more difficult the more dependents one has, so it really depends far too heavily on the individual context to make sweeping judgements about feasibility.
ptmcc
Having worked full time and saving for the past 15+ years
h2zizzle
The problem isn't part-time hours, which are ideal and actually more in-line with workers' actual labor time. The problem is that companies refuse (and workers refuse to make them) pay high-enough wages.
TylerE
The problem isn't wages, it's that part time jobs don't come with benefits. Health insurance being tied to employment is maybe the second biggest problem in this country and you almost never see anyone even talk about it. Ever wonder why you see so few disabled start up founders?
h2zizzle
Part-time jobs shouldn't come with benefits. Neither should full-time jobs. As you said, "Health insurance being tied to employment is [one of the] biggest problems in this country."
People should be getting paid money for their work, and generally more than they are now.
ViscountPenguin
Part time work is a godsend for those of us with kids, it might not fit in with your life situation, but for lots of us it does.
giantg2
Many with kids need full time for the benfits.
jameslk
Maybe times are different now (I’m not freelancing anymore) but I was the happiest when I was a freelancer. I made more than I could have as a full time employee, because I could ask more often for more (vs jumping jobs every 2-4 years). I could write off a ton of expenses. I could put away more for retirement (self-employment gives you higher limits). I didn’t have to do stupid whiteboard interviews. I could work whenever and wherever I wanted. And I could ultimately choose when I took time off and for however long.
It’s not ideal for everyone, especially if you need the security of a predictable salary and good benefits
Aurornis
Freelancing enjoyment depends entirely on your clients and ability to find more clients.
I’ve had some freelance clients I’ve loved and some that made me regret ever leaving full-time work.
jameslk
> Freelancing enjoyment depends entirely on your clients and ability to find more clients.
Yes, though I found the former generally to be dependent on the latter
giantg2
This sounds kind of crazy for me. How can you get over the extra 8% or so from Social Security and Medicare tax and still make more with while paying for benefits and not getting a 401k match? Maybe you're an outlier? I get that expenses get written off, bit that still means they were an expense from your profits.
jameslk
1. Part of your negotiation should be explaining that independent contractors have ~30% less overhead than a salaried employee due to the savings on payroll taxes as well as unemployment insurance, recruiting, benefits, vacation time, etc and therefore require a higher rate than salaried employees
2. If your time is in demand because you’re being referred enough, your leverage is higher
3. You can jump ship as often as you want for a higher rate without having to explain it on a resume
4. Building a brand around yourself lowers your perceived risk for businesses and gives you additional leverage
5. Write off as much as possible, and if you make enough, there’s additional things you can do on the tax savings front beyond just writing off expenses (S-corp salary + draw taxed as capital gains)
6. Specialize in something (e.g. specific ecommerce platforms, web performance optimization, accessibility remediation) and you will become more trusted in that something, get more referred to others for it, and gain more leverage
sokoloff
You get over it by making your hourly rate numerically the same as your annual salary divided by 1000. If you can pull it off, quote only a day rate (that figure times 8) rather than hourly.
Companies readily pay more per hour for contractors.
If your market full-time salary is $200k/yr, charge $200/hr. If you’re offering your services a la carte at $100/hr, you’re going to have a terrible time.
parineum
You may not and I don't really but I'm tired of people telling other people they don't really want what they ask for.
How hard is it to believe that some people like gig work, even if they have to pay for their own insurance.
hinkley
I’m probably never going to retire, unless I cannot find part time work in my dotage. We are the only first world country where benefits are as big an issue as you’re making it. That’s an “us problem”.
alberth
I’ve only skimmed the FAQ articles but haven’t seen anything about how exactly you get paid (1099, does that platform facilitate fractional pay, etc).
rr808
The idea of fractional jobs implying you need to work on multiple jobs at a time probably makes sense.
I like the idea of part time but feel like just keeping up with technology is already such a lot of work you can't ever be useful working 2 or 3 days per week for the rest of your career.
hinkley
You could use a better string interpolation tool that replaces, “0 days ago” with “today”.
jaggederest
ActiveSupport still has a wonderfully readable implementation:
https://github.com/rails/rails/blob/b0c813bc7b61c71dd21ee3a6...
Though I don't really use Rails that often any more, I still miss some of the niceties.
ralferoo
If something was less than 24 hours ago, there's a good chance that it was actually be "yesterday" rather than "today".
The peer post linking to someone else's solution that uses size appropriate scales seems better.
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I'm Taylor, I spent about a year as a Fractional Head of Product. It was my first time not in a full-time W2 role, and I quickly learned that the hardest part of the job wasn't doing the Product work (I was a PM for 10+ years), it was finding good clients to work with.
So I built Fractional Jobs.
The goal is to help more people break out of W2 life and into their own independent careers by helping them find great clients to work with.
We find and vet the clients, and then engineers can request intros to any that seem like a good fit. We'll make the intro assuming the client opts in after seeing your profile.
We have 9 open engineering roles right now: - 2x Fractional CTO - 2x AI engineers - 3x full-stack - 1x staff frontend - 1x mobile