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diggan
First question from reading through the landing page is about this part:
> Import your statements from your broker or bank.
Exactly what brokers/banks that are supported should be listed somewhere and linked here, as that's a "make or break" feature for a lot of people I bet. Not much point in replacing my homegrown "Banks CSV export -> Data processing > Import into spreadsheet" workflow unless I just replace that last step but the previous ones remain the same.
ryandrake
As an avid, daily Quicken user, yes, seamless integration with financial institutions is my #1 requirement. I am not willing to manually navigate a dozen banks' broken UIs to find their "download CSV" option, hope it works, download a bunch of files to my computer, and then hope that they can be imported into my application--and then repeat every day when I update.
I have in the past switched physical banks purely because their integration was either terrible or not working and I refused to go the "download CSV" route.
Unfortunately some banks are starting to drop support for applications directly connecting to them, and moving to an unacceptable model where intermediaries like Intuit's servers have to do the communication and store your credentials. This has been getting noticeably shittier in the last couple of years.
My #2 requirement (a close second) is that the application must be running on my local PC. I will never accept a cloud-based web-app or something I have to host on a VPS and access through some dinky HTML/JS UI.
dgemm
Interesting perspective because my #1 requirement is that no 3rd party gets financial login credentials at all. I'm willing to do CSVs in order to not compromise on security, although the experience most certainly is bad.
flessner
A lot of brokers offer read-only logins/API keys for these cases. I still heavily agree with your general sentiment - purchasing power is among the most valuable information to businesses and advertisers.
shaklee3
This is a huge waste of time and not worth it. The amount of hours you spend fixing errors manually vs the small risk your info gets out I don't think is worth it.
mp05
Interesting that you're this paranoid, but yet you trust banks.
ghosty141
> I am not willing to manually navigate a dozen banks' broken UIs to find their "download CSV"
> My #2 requirement (a close second) is that the application must be running on my local PC. I will never accept a cloud-based web-app
You're lucky you don't live in the EU since well then you are straight out of luck since the bank APIs are only available to commercial entities thus the software generally is in the cloud and costs money.
tucosan
Banks in Germany offer access to consumers via the HBCI standard. Not sure about the rest of the EU.
mesk
fio.cz has one - https://www.fio.cz/bank-services/internetbanking-api
ctippett
Obviously the UK is not the EU... but Starling Bank offer an API that you can use to access your personal bank account. I'm sure Monzo and other neo-banks offer similar functionality.
augstein
Banks generally support HBCI standard (in Central/Western Europe)
Thats why using apps like Outbank, that automatically aggregate all your bank accounts data work like a charm in my experience.
fmbb
Is it illegal for banks to provide private customers personal API access?
throw0101b
> […] and store your credentials.
And doing so violates the terms of service with many banks:
> You agree that you will not authorize a third party to use the Service or share your credentials with a third party to use the Service on your behalf except in legally authorized situations such as legal guardianship or pursuant to a power of attorney.
* https://www.bankofamerica.com/online-banking/service-agreeme...
labbett
I stopped using services like Coinbase that force you into Plaid. My final straw was getting a notification that I had to relink my accounts because I had changed my bank's password.
The banks are just as to blame. I'd love some basic non-SMS 2FA as a starting point, but sadly my bank is only the #6 largest in the US so they don't have the budget for it.
joshka
Oddly, BofA actually has mechanisms in place to allow non-credential sharing access to external services. Try linking a paypal account and you'll get a prompt from a Bank of America system that allows paypal to access all your banking details.
bitcoin_anon
You’re a member of a dozen banks!?!
paulddraper
You have dozens of banks?
moneywoes
is there a zapier for integrations that could be used
samstave
# Bank of America (BofA)
BofA Login https://www.bankofamerica.com/
1. Log in to your account.
2. Go to "Activity" or "Statements".
3. Select the account and time range.
4. Click "Download" and choose "CSV". Yes
--
# Chase Chase Login
1. Log in to your Chase account.
2. Navigate to "Statements & Documents".
3. Choose the account and statement period.
4. Click "Download" and select "CSV". Yes
--
# Wells Fargo Wells Fargo Login
1. Log in to your account.
2. Go to "Account Activity".
3. Select "Download Account Activity".
4. Choose "CSV" and specify the time period. Yes
# Citibank Citibank Login
1. Log in to your account.
2. Go to "Statements".
3. Choose the time period and format.
4. Select "Download" in "CSV". Yes
# Capital One Capital One Login
1. Log in to your account.
2. Navigate to the "Account Activity".
3. Select the time period and click "Download".
4. Choose "CSV". Yes
samstave
REP-EDIT:
You can literally just ask bot for api docs to access info - then gimme a python for such:
https://i.imgur.com/P9UgZ98.png
>>"..evaluate the docs for each API and give me the most straight-forward python to connect which prompts me for which fin inst - with a menu for inputs. define an .env with the reqs fin inst fields i'd need to add.. but use the vars in the script... define in mermaid and swim."..
https://i.imgur.com/SpsyfI5.png
https://i.imgur.com/QzmPZIg.png
--
Basically, the semantic web is near.
Hopefully soon there will be a dictionary and a thesaurus of quippets {AI-Bot-like snippets that you call like legos to walk through a Warren (rabbits hole)
==-->
"Give me a panel that [does complex output] using [random inputs] and [other relationships] and give put that as "oligarchs" and give me relevant tables for relationships between the [elements]
(I like to add in "from this .git repo" and I also like to have them do autistically-obsessive logging.)
The problem is that I have so many logging iterations I get lost...
What I NEED is an AI co-AIHDHD-Pilot -- that watches all mY iterations and birdwalking through a problem, curiosity, muse, failure, success - -and give me a Charlie Day Version of my thought process
brutal_boi
For that very reason I tried selfhosting Actual Finance[1] but it is more of a budgeting app than a networth tracking app.
I ended up coding a small exporter[2] since I already had some stack in place that queries SimpleFI[3], which essentially allows querying balance and transaction information for most US-based banks (read only); most similar to plaid but a lot more developer-friendly afaik.
johntash
Do you have any experience with plaid to compare it to simplefin by any chance? I started a similar project with plaid before, but haven't really gone back to it since dev accounts became a lot more limited.
brutal_boi
I could not find a way to make or enroll as a dev in plaid; that was a while ago tho.
SimpleFIN on the other hand seems to be pretty good for dev work; plus very responsive in terms of questions and requests. Can only speak good of them.
undefined
a-fadil
For now only a standard csv file is supported with these columns: Date, Symbol, Quantity, Activity Type, Unit Price, Currency, and Fee. Supported activity types: BUY SELL DIVIDEND INTEREST DEPOSIT WITHDRAWAL TRANSFER_IN TRANSFER_OUT CONVERSION_IN CONVERSION_OUT FEE TAX Example CSV format: date,symbol,quantity,activityType,unitPrice,currency,fee 2024-01-01T15:02:36.329Z,MSFT,1,DIVIDEND,57.5,USD,0 2023-12-15T15:02:36.329Z,MSFT,30,BUY,368.6046511627907,USD,0 2023-08-11T14:55:30.863Z,$CASH-USD,600.03,DEPOSIT,1,USD,0
cvoss
Seems like this arrangement of columns can't properly support dividends, as 1) there is no change to the held quantity when a dividend is issued, 2) the unit price of the symbol is irrelevant, and 3) there is no column to record the actual amount received. My bank records a quantity of 0 and a dummy unit price of $1. It would be incorrect for the bank to record a non-zero quantity.
anamexis
Why would that preclude supporting dividends? As you mentioned, unit price and quantity can simply be ignored for those rows.
neilv
I don't know about Wealthfolio, but the import QFX/OFX/CSV/etc. into GnuCash has ways to reconcile that with transactions you've manually recorded/edited, which can be much richer than the bank or CC knows. (GnuCash also has a way to import via network access, but I haven't tried it.)
(Example of richness: splitting am Amazon CC charge into the multiple expense accounts for the items that went into the order, and also accounting for the CC rewards and the Gift Card balance that contributed.)
I tried taking a break from GnuCash for maybe year, and going to a spreadsheet, and found: (1) it was still substantial work to maintain an accurate view of balances, and (2) I was missing a lot of information I found I needed in practice.
jsdwarf
That's exactly my problem. Assigning the purchase of a new computer mouse to the "Expenses:ITEquipment" account? Easy if you purchased the mouse at your local computer store and used your debit card. Just define a text pattern to make any purchase from that store go to the ITEquipment account and run it against the csv from your checkings account.
Same purchase from amazon? Difficult, because you have two layers of indirection: checking account > credit card > amazon > it equipment.
Currently testing a new spreadsheet approach to deal with such scenarios, but not easy.
ska
Isnt' why splits exist though? I've never found that to be onerous, and I did run a small business on it for a while.
Then again I'd never trust rules to do everything right anyway, so I'm reviewing at least once to reconcile.
dmohs
You just need one more account. The card payment is just a transfer to an "Amazon Balance" account or something. Then the individual items are entries against that account.
groby_b
That's the core question. This is 99% of the value that any such tool provides.
An open source project that had import flows for all the major banks & brokers into a well-defined unified format? Tremendous impact.
A graphing tool that only imports a standardized CSV? I can do that in my spreadsheet in minutes.
rexreed
The Spreadsheet-based workflow works very well for me as well. I have a feeling a very large % of people manage their personal finances on a spreadsheet. And it's private, not cloud based, backupable, and password protected.
jaza
Ditto. Even though I'm quick to scream "that spreadsheet is an abomination, you need a database", actually, my personal finances spreadsheet is not an abomination (at least, I'd like to think it's not - and after having seen quite a few "enterprise spreadsheets" in my time, I'd like to think I'm familiar with most of the red flags these days), it's what spreadsheets were designed for. It helps me to appreciate why accountants will never ditch spreadsheets: you just can't beat their flexibility and ease-of-use.
Although I choose convenience over privacy / no-cloud, Google Sheets FTW.
dv_dt
An tool (maybe AI) that processes PDF statements and outputs the structured importable positions & transactions would be appealing to me. No live online link to be compromised, or at lease a simpler fetch statement PDF scrape (vs maintain scrape of broker sites).
halfdan
Portfolio Performance (http://portfolio-performance.app) does just that.
bornfreddy
The link doesn't work for me, adding 'www.' prefix fixes it: https://www.portfolio-performance.app/
jonromero
We try doing that with HeyFire.co - import from a screenshot that is processed on your browser! But with a high rate of hit or miss right now.
figmert
I really feel like there should be a tool that wraps Woob[0] finance and provides something similar to Plaid, but self-hosted. There are some great finance apps that could then potentially integrate it to improve automation.
Woob does a great job of providing a good API for automating the web, and sure, not everything works, but it's a good start. Unfortunately, it seems it's not very well known still.
aketchum
this sounds incredibly hard to do - plaid's moat is that it is a bunch of work to keep up to date with all these different bank UI's, plus many banks have moved to OAuth which they only provide to trusted partners - like plaid. You cant get an oauth token to your BofA account just because you have an account there
insane_dreamer
It's a beautiful design, and I like the idea of OSS and self-hosted instead of a SaaS, but since it doesn't support direct connections to banks/brokerages (i.e., through Plaid), then it's not really an option for me. I'm not going to go through the trouble of downloading/importing CSVs etc. (too many different accounts). (I currently use Wealthfront for net worth aggregation and Copilot for tracking spending.)
balderdash
I don’t know - I really don’t like having those credentials in third parties hands - but I just do this stuff quarterly
kevstev
Agreed- but an app on my own desktop I would be happy to give to, at least instead of a website where they are stored in a database on someone else's box.
bornfreddy
What do you mean? Isn't Plaid online, and you have to give them your credentials for them to fetch data for you? (Genuinely curious, never used Plaid myself)
boulos
I've used ofxtools to download things locally. It basically supports the old Quicken/QuickBooks interfaces which many US banks, brokerages, and credit cards support. It's pretty clumsy though.
snide
Really happy with Projection Lab in this space. Although it's not open source, it is self-hostable if you pay for their lifetime access. The developer continues to update it, and has pretty much all the features I want for managing retirement projections.
scubakid
Oh hey, thanks! Working hard to make PL a little better every day :)
jakswa
Just wanted to say thanks for bringing this up! So far it is a really interesting tool for me, as someone too lazy to find a proper financial planner
vectoral
ProjectionLab is great, it's been fun to watch it grow over the last few years!
buzzerbetrayed
As someone who has used it, would you say the lifetime option is worth $800? That seems really steep. It wouldn’t pay itself off over monthly for over 7 years.
hansoolo
Is it specifically for the north American financial market / system?
switch007
No not from what I recall.
It supported most UK scenarios but I felt like it never got personal taxes quite right. It seemed to be out by about 2-4%
But maybe I didn't fully understand it, partly because of the way it calculates it as a repayment in the following year (our income taxes are deducted at source and paid monthly)
undefined
wingin
another lifetime subscriber here, highly recommend!
cube2222
Looks cool! How does it compare with Portfolio Performance[0], which is arguably the most popular open-source tool for portfolio tracking?
brailsafe
This is the second time I've looked at this and I can't get past the chart having no labels or axes. I have no investments at all, but I feel like if I wanted a chart, I'd want to not be required to interact with it to see information. Likewise with the Apple-esque ambiguous financial goal progress bars or whatever. Is it 60% or 20 out of 30 dollars over what period of time? Feels like removing information didn't help here.
bt1a
I am currently working on configuring a similar private, open source portfolio tracker built on top of ledger (a double-entry accounting system). I was drawn to it because of its yml config that I can version control easily
If anyone has set up Paisa (successfully or unsuccessfully) and has anything to share, I'd love to hear it.
https://paisa.fyi/ https://demo.paisa.fyi/ https://ledger-cli.org/
When comparing the two programs here, I can't immediately see any big differences. Sorry if this reads like a shallow plug
maxwelljoslyn
I used to use Beancount religiously (before some job and health difficulties left me less capable of tracking my finances as closely.) My biggest complaint was always that I didn't have something like autocomplete/syntax highlighting to cut down on the manual-ness of data entry.
Most of the aforementioned difficulties are behind me, and Paisa looks like an awesome way to help ease me back into Beancount. Thank you! I'm going to try it out soon!
floathub
There is a beancount mode for Emacs that does a lot of what you want, but only really of use if you use Emacs.
freddie_mercury
The beancount mode for VS Code is also pretty good with syntax highlighting, autocomplete, tabbing, autoformat, etc. It's what I've been using for years.
But I think the "real" answer, especially as more countries get increasingly cashless, is to just import a CSV or OFX every few weeks so you're not actually manually entering anything.
bornfreddy
Looks interesting, thanks for sharing. One comment: I didn't find any mention of "open source" or AGPL on paisa.fyi, which is kind of a big deal to me, and I assume others too. Maybe you should add it there?
Like the idea of using text files as storage as it lets me use git to track changes - nice! Will check it out too.
steviedotboston
Looks nice. One reason why I use a spreadsheet for stuff like this is I can share it with my wife through Google Sheets, so we can periodically update with our separate accounts.
satvikpendem
I posted before an Ask HN submission if there were an app that essentially acted as a frontend to Google Sheets, where I could enter information into a mobile or desktop app and have it sync to Sheets but it seems like no such solution exists. I might just have to build it myself.
steviedotboston
Would google appsheet work?
lbrito
Looks exactly like Wealthsimple; did you use the same graph framework or something?
a-fadil
So Wealthfolio gained some attention since the launch. I wrote a kind of a manifesto for the app: https://wealthfolio.app/manifest Also, a draft of the roadmap: https://github.com/afadil/wealthfolio/discussions/70 Will be working to make it the best desktop tracker :)
Circlecrypto2
Man... The loss of Mint has really left a gap in this market.
mindwork
Once Mint.com has closed I started to dig for alternatives and found Monarch Money. Couldn't be happier to pay for the service. New features come out pretty often, and I believe they work on the better support for tracking investments.
impostervt
Seconded. I used Personal Capital for a while but the links to my accounts broke frequently. Moved to Monarch and paid for it and its way less of a hassle.
pama
[flagged]
dalyons
same journey as me. monach is great, very happy with it. What initially sold me on monarch was the cash flow mgmt & visualization. I could never actually get cash flow to work on empower, it gets confused by things like investment transfers and is not overridable enough. Empower in general feels very jank in comparison now.
satvikpendem
What do you like about Monarch? I was thinking of using it as well after Mint closed.
mindwork
Compared to mint here is a list of things I like about it in no particular order: No ads, I pay for the service and my data is not sold to 3rd party, design, ability to have many different accounts, auto-sync with all my accounts, transaction reviews, cashflow breakdown and sankey diagrams, mobile application + web versions, transaction logging. beginner friendly budgeting interface, tracking recurring transactions.
r3trohack3r
I have been using Empower (previously Personal Capital) for almost 10 years now and have been happy enough
the__alchemist
Not really: Ever since Mint's shut down, there have been replacements pouring out of the woodwork. It's a low-hanging-fruit (Due to aggregators like Plaid), saturated marked. Note that the OP's program is a bit different in that it's local, and seems to focus on individual investments vice online account aggregation.
Glyptodon
Besides the ability to easily connect with arbitrary bank and brokerage accounts to maintain data, another thing somewhat lacking in this (general) area is a relatively comprehensive open source market data dataset. You can somewhat pull for individual stocks, but if you want to do analysis or back test a strategy against real data, comprehensive data on even just the S&P 500 is lacking.
alex_suzuki
While you’re at it, have a look at Ghostfolio too: https://ghostfol.io/en/start Open Source and self-hostable.
hammock
How does this compare to Simplifi, Empower, etc?
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Thank you for your comments, just some context:
- The app is a simple desktop application that works on macOS, Windows, and Ubuntu.
- I developed this app for my own needs. Getting tired of SaaS app subscriptions and privacy concerns.
- For now, the activities are logged manually or imported from a CSV file. No integration with Plaid or other platforms.
- No monetization is planned for now (only a "buy me a coffee" if you use and appreciate the app).