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grose
grose
Quick update: I think uploading might be kinda totally messed up right now. I'll check it later after I'm done with my day job. Sorry everyone and thanks for trying it out. Send me an e-mail if you see any bugs and I will take a look.
grose
New update! Thanks to some helpful new users e-mailing me, I think I figured out what was wrong with it. It was a cache issue (of course). I have disabled the cache stuff for now, and hopefully it should work again. If you have already uploaded some tracks and they didn't show up, they should show up now.
ace2358
I signed up. This is a thing I would love! A smaller plan would be great or a yearly cost. I pay for subsonic ($12/yr) and would love a remote service for my music host. It’s the main reason I leave my tower on 24/7!
Great project!
ant6n
The page does not make it clear how it works.
This is how a technically inclined but maybe less so than your current users may see this: Like its a kind of Dropbox? With folders and whatnot? But with a Music player App to play the music on various devices, which will stream the music from that drop box?
So it’s like a Spotify, except it takes the music from this drop box like thing instead of their server? For which operating systems do u have music player apps? Android, iOS, windows, macOS, Linux? What do these apps look like, where’s the link to those apps?
How do I upload data, via the website? Or is there another app? How about some screen shots to see how it’s uploaded and then played?
grose
Thanks for the feedback. Agreed it's not presented well. It's kind of like Dropbox. You can upload files from your browser, and you can also listen to your music in your browser. It supports an open protocol called Subsonic. There are Subsonic apps for various OSs. But, we don't have our own native app. I definitely need screenshots / open demo page.
ant6n
Thanks for the answer! How about a paragraph like this:
Inter.tube let’s you easily store your music collection in your own cloud and listen to it on all your devices. It's kind of like Dropbox, but focused on storing and streaming music. You can upload files (mp3, Flac, …) from your browser, and you can listen to your music either with your browser or via music apps. We don’t have our own native music playing App. You can use any music playing app that supports an open protocol called “Subsonic”. There are Subsonic apps for various OSs, including Android and iOS. See our list of recommended apps [here].
kvirani
This is awesome. Why do you think you never found success with it?
grose
Thanks! Good question, I think it's probably mostly a mental block on being "done". There was always "one more feature" I wanted to add before trying to market it. The feature I can most think of right now is playlists. They are supported in Subsonic but not the web UI.
Currently I have exactly 2 customers, who are pretty much friends helping me test. The good news is the site is optimized for being set-it-and-forget-it (all serverless arch) so just having one customer is enough to break even.
mcsniff
I've built sites like this; clear, concise, to the point. Not many people used them.
Once I started adding a bit more "flair" to it, things got traction. I'm not talking a complete redesign, but I too had to go back to capitalizing words, adding color, and caring about the "experience" for the market I was aiming to capture.
I hated it, I still do, but I hate it less after seeing success with the changes I was willing to concede on. Just sayin'.
kristopolous
I can't experience this easily.
Have a really small demo tier or a demo account, say with public domain classical and jazz standards, just something basic.
The demo tier could be phone number based, then a write once system, let's say 100mb ... something really token.
You could even have a few sample tunes everyone gets by default. Rhapsody in Blue by George Gershwin is in public domain for instance as are say, the rags of Scott Joplin, Debussy's Deux Arabesques, etc.
If that doesn't onboard people then have a no-hassles 7 day refund. If someone gives you money but then decides they don't want it, have it built in the interface they can back out for 100% money back in 7 days.
dclowd9901
Because devices change all the time and most people don’t even have a repository of music files they keep. To even start using this service in earnest requires all that. This dude made the perfect thing for a period that existed like 20 years ago.
Sakos
I had the same first thought, but I'm not sure it's as big as a problem as you make it out to be. I know plenty of people who still have music in the form of mp3's. One of the biggest issues the service has is being able to reach the right people. I don't really have a solution for that. GPM was used by millions of people, the service doesn't need millions of users to be successful. It can still be a valuable product that serves a niche audience.
no_time
The people who can work soulseek and/or cdparanoia are plenty capable of hosting their own streaming platform. Atleast now in 2023 I think.
It's a cool project nonetheless. I'd love to be proven wrong.
cdme
Agreed — I love the simplicity. In a perfect world I want this with server-side Last.fm support and a plain, reliable iOS app.
grose
I'll look into serverside Last.fm support. I think it should be relatively easy to add. Agreed that an app would be awesome but I don't have the resources for it :(. The web interface works decently as a PWA (at least on Android according to testers, it has MediaSession support and stuff) but it's still kind of bad, definitely not a real app substitute.
Inversechi
For client side last.fm support the site could be added to this web-extension.
https://github.com/web-scrobbler/web-scrobbler/
assuming the UI expresses meta data in an easily scrapable way.
kwanbix
I will go with the home page has a very old-looking/nerd-looking look.
Did you ever try to promote it in Hydrogenaudio? Is "the" music enthusiasts forum.
grose
I didn't really promote it anywhere, except I posted on the Google Play Music Reddit I think. I got some good feedback from there. TBH I have no idea how to market things. Not sure how to toe the line between "hey I want to make something cool for you" and spamming. I'll check that out though. I definitely had music enthusiasts in mind, I understand their hatred for re-encoding :)
jrexilius
This seems like a good fit, but I'd echo some other requests on here for yearly plan (hate monthly), and playlists. I personally am fine with the barebones aesthetic but you may want to do a bit more for general marketability.
Good job!
Sakos
I really like this. I'd say the only thing I'm missing is being able to make custom playlists like Spotify. I think there are plenty of people who still have their own music that might find this useful, but I have no idea how you might reach these people.
edit: I may have found a bug? I uploaded multiple remixes of a song and it only shows the original version. I don't see a way to see what raw files are being stored, which I think would be incredibly helpful.
edit2: Oh, I guess it just generally isn't properly showing new songs atm. Ah, well. I'll try again later.
dangravell
> I have no idea how you might reach these people
Being in the same market, and being frustrated my service isn't even mentioned on this page despite being mentioned in the OP, I'm interested: how would _you_ find out about this? Would you search for it? Would you expect to see it advertised somewhere?
bjorn2k
I like the clean style of your website.
dandare
I was looking for a service like this, Can I stream from inter.tube to Sonos?
Also, I a smaller plan would be welcome, I pay $2 to google for 100GB, I would welcome it here too.
grose
Thats's a good idea! I think I will add a smaller plan later. Please check back soon (might take a few days, looks like I have lots of bugs to squash)! The prices are more or less a direct reflection of the potential fees so it should totally possible to do a small plan.
BTW I should also mention that if you don't pay after the trial, it never actually locks you out. I haven't coded that part yet and it I feel bad about charging for buggy software so it's more of a donation at the moment. So feel free to use it for free and contribute if you like it later on.
dandare
Thanks. How about Sonos? I don't mind paying $5 but it makes no sense to me without Sonos.
PS: I hate Sonos, but I am locked in :)
maccard
It would need to be more than that. $2 is about the cost storing 100GB on most cloud storage services, and that's before you pay for any egress or access fees.
grose
My secret sauce is that I'm using B2 (Backblaze) + Cloudflare Workers to save on egress fees. I am thinking of switching to Cloudflare's storage thingy as well. But bandwidth is cheap, in exchange the download speeds are not so great (CF probably better).
ggm
I paid for plex, I stream my own music from anywhere via the callback into my home net. I can chromecast, play in-car, whatever. If I have IP "it just works"
Its backed on an RPI-4 NAS I built, running the plex arm linux code. I have another RPI-3 in the living room as a headless music source to an amp. In the past I've used HDMI to VGA+audio splitters to scatter output to devices. This is my music, on my disks, under my control. I own these rips, the bits are mine. I keep the discs behind them on the shelves just in case but I haven't opened a CD case in nearly a decade.
Plex isn't perfect, but its pretty good. plexamp is available when you take subscription, and periodically plex offer lifetime buy deals, which I leapt on.
Jellyfin is [edit: not - it's from emby] another variant of the same codebase (forked)
I also paid for tidal. I don't like these music rental schemes, I like to own my CDs and rip but for exploration, finding what you don't know, its really useful and unlike some of the other choices, its owned by musos. I think at some level its still greenwashing the truly awful world of A&R/IPR on music, but if anyone has to get payola here, it might as well be musicians.
Krisjohn
I use Plexamp with a Wireguard tunnel back home. Biggest upgrade to my in-car music listening in years.
2OEH8eoCRo0
If only Google could stop screwing with my Android Auto. I have an older car and using Android Auto on the phone was nice! Then they killed it and replaced it with Assistant "Driving Mode" which they ruined and now it only works when inside Maps while navigating- which means you cannot use it unless you put in directions to where you are going. Most of the time I know where I am going. I need to put in fake directions and ignore them in order to listen to my damn music. We are moving backwards! If there's one place where I have a short fuse/temper for these aggravations it's while I'm trying to drive!
Hamuko
Same. I'm actually surprised at how well Plex works without having direct remote access over the Internet. The only port open on my router is the one for Wireguard.
bodge5000
Does plex have anything for audiobooks (preferably streaming with the option to download locally)? I quit audible after they removed desktop support but I managed to get all my books out of their DRM, but right now they just sit on an external ssd and I have to manually load them onto whatever laptop I'm using (which also means they don't keep their place between devices)
cridenour
Prologue for iOS is a Plex audiobook player that is better than any audiobook player has a right to be.
Here's a good guide on how to set up Plex for proper metadata with audiobooks: https://github.com/seanap/Plex-Audiobook-Guide
Arn_Thor
I'd never thought to use Plex with audiobooks before but this post and guide got me started. Now I've got all my [Amazon audiobook service] books saved safely for when someone inevitably tries to pull the plug on it. And streaming through Prologue is a way better experience than the commercial option
bodge5000
I've never used plex so this might be completely out of the ordinary for even more normal plex use cases, but is there a web client?
I use Android, iPadOS, Fedora Linux, MacOS and possibly in the future Windows (my last job required it, my next job might too) and unless the standard plex app supports audiobooks I doubt I'll find much consistency using native apps for each of those operating systems, if they even exist on all of them
ajdude
Seconding Prologue. I have successfully listened to many audiobooks with it on Plex
gigel82
I recommend https://www.audiobookshelf.org/ for self-host audiobooks; they have apps for Android and iOS (you need TestFlight for the iOS one though).
Cyph0n
Seconding audiobookshelf. The web player and apps are both pretty good.
In general, I think a dedicated app for the content of interest typically works better than a general media server like Plex or Jellyfin. The same applies to books (Calibre/Calibre Web) and comics/manga (Komga).
hanklazard
+1 for this project and I’m currently testing out the built-in podcast server
endigma
Jellyfin is an emby fork, not Plex.
christoph
Jellyfin is excellent. Swapped to it from Plex about a year ago. Haven't looked back once. I run the server on an old M1 Mac Mini, it's the first time I've felt I have my own personal Netflix. I can stream 40gb 4k HDR Atmos rips to old stereo 1080p plasmas with ancient Firesticks (on wifi) in bedrooms in my house with almost zero delay, even when fast forwarding, and getting near realtime frame previews as you skip. It's lovely software.
klooney
How old can an m1 mac mini actually be
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wanderingmind
have you been able to work out how to stream when you are not in LAN, like with tailscale or other overlay network?
TechBro8615
I used Jellyfin for the first time recently. It was very smooth and worked flawlessly for my use case (watching episodes of a TV show on my phone after downloading them on my computer).
I never used Plex because it creeped me out. Maybe I misunderstood something but it seemed like it was needlessly phoning home.
ollien
I'm really trying to like Jellyfin, but unfortunately the Roku app is just absolutely terrible by comparison. The thing that grinds my gears the most is I can't see how much time is left in what I'm watching without pausing.
ggm
Ah my bad. Apologies. It's mentioned so often in writeups of plex I got their origins mixed up.
alt227
Emby was also a plex fork, so its kinds the same?
nvgeele
Emby, a (somewhat) open source C# project, is not a fork of Plex Media Server, a closed source C/C++ project. Emby was forked as Jellyfin however, as a reaction to Emby becoming more and more of a closed source project.
endigma
No, it's not.
adave
That's too much effort, don't you think.Maybe not for you but for general tech folks.
dopeboy
OP has a somewhat complicated setup. Here's an easier one that I use:
* Pay $15/month for a VPS (whatbox in my case).
* whatbox has a notion of first class apps, including Plex. Click a button in their GUI to install it.
* drag and drop your music using whatbox's GUI file browser
That's it.
gigel82
You're scaring people away from selfhosting with that $15/month. There are plenty of cheaper options, including under-$1/month with a dedicated IPv4 and enough storage for thousands of songs (or hundreds if you're using flac): https://lowendbox.com/blog/1-vps-1-usd-vps-per-month/
waboremo
$15/mo is only marginally better than a family streaming plan on price, but loses out on music availability.
Getting that down to $5-10 would be worth it for most who aren't into the social aspect of music services.
alangibson
The negative reactions to you saying $15 are a good example of why there are no good Spotify and Netflix alternatives for people wanting to stream their own media.
People claim to want it, but they put a very low monetary value on it. No new business can survive on $3 a month subscriptions.
pohuing
Wow $15 a month? What's in that box, you're not just using it for some music streaming right? I've got my reverse proxy running on a 3.45€ instance from hetzner and I can't imagine you need much more for some music streaming right?
chadPrancer
[dead]
codethief
> I paid for plex
I just spent 5min browsing their website and I still have no idea how much it costs, or whether they offer cloud storage or I need to install a media server application on my NAS at home. And how come they can offer "free movies"? Could anyone explain what their business model looks like? The website looks rather sketchy…
Arn_Thor
Plex through its web interface and apps offers free streaming of some live TV and movies. Free as in beer.
For enthusiasts, it can also catalogue and offer a portal for your local media collection. That is also free.
The Plex Pass is not free. It offers some neat customization features for the app, plus hardware transcoding of media which I suspect is the reason most people pay for it.
causi
I wish Plex or Jellyfin would get support for audiobooks. I can keep my music library on my phone but my audiobook library is much larger and sometimes I get an itch to listen to something I don't have on me.
Arn_Thor
I just set up Plex with the Audnexus agent (https://github.com/seanap/Audiobooks.bundle), using the Prologue app (https://prologue.audio/) to listen on my phone. It was a little bit of a fiddle to set up, but it's worked wonderfully.
CWuestefeld
Plex has a setting at the library level that tells it to remember your last spot in an audio track. So if you set up your audiobooks as if they're music, this will allow you to listen to them reasonably through plex/plexamp.
That's not really a satisfying solution - you're missing out on the metadata matching features of the system. But it does get you there.
There's another app, audiobookshelf[1], that does this better. There's a server component analogous to plex server, as well as a web app or a mobile app for playback. The user experience is way better, but organizing the audio files is rather a pain.
Larrikin
What do you do for podcast? I feel like its the biggest (and really only) regression Plex ever did. Theres a plethora of other apps, but they all kind of suck and don't work with everything. My pain point is lack of Sonos support.
Spotify has podcasts but literally has the worst UI for keeping up with podcasts. They make it as difficult as possible to find what you've already listened to and what you're currently listening to, outside of the last few played podcasts.
saganus
So I'm not the only one fighting the podcast UI in Spotify!
I've been trying to use Spotify for a few podcasts and the UX is just terrible.
I can't believe they spent millions of dollars getting Joe Rogan exclusively and then not invest a tiny bit in improving the podcast experience.
senectus1
yup, the plex streaming music solution works perfectly for my family as well. I wish plexamp was a little better though. the interface is a bit unintuitive/inconsistent and it doesn't behave well with android auto.
ggm
And playlists need work. The way they implemented there are size limits because .. scaling fails.
rolenthedeep
I use Jellyfin, it's about the same thing as Plex, but free. I host it on my homelab along with a half dozen other services, and I can stream any of my media from anywhere. There's even pretty nice third-party clients. I use finamp on android, it's specifically a music player frontend for jellyfin, and has options to download your files and play offline.
So far, the biggest problem is simply learning how to find music again. Spotify was too convenient for discovery.
But, I've been happily streaming my collection for a couple of months now, and removing Spotify and the radio has gotten rid of most of the last remaining advertising vectors in my life. It's nice. I very much enjoy knowing that I own and control my media and the data about my usage of it. There will never be ads or a creepy business model. If something goes wrong and knocks the server offline, I have my music cached on my phone.
I wish this were more accessible to everyone. Setting up a public-facing server, or even a private one with a VPN tunnel is too much hassle for the average person. It's so very worth it though. Owning your own services is so liberating
pimeys
I've found out the best places to find new music are the ones on the illegal side of things. There are still torrent sites with amazing communities, recommendation systems and all the possible music available in all qualities.
Too bad it's not really OK to mention them by name, but if you dig a bit, you can find them.
royaltjames
when w.cd died I lost a part of my life :'(
rrrrrrrrrrrryan
The loss of the collages and all the metadata was almost as terrible as the loss of the music itself.
pimeys
It kind of still exists. Not as great, but a great resource if you're into digging music.
int_19h
And Bandcamp seems to be where artists prefer you to buy so that they get to see most of that money.
politelemon
I didn't know that, but glad to hear it. I've just been using Bandcamp because it's got a very simple straightforward interface, isn't bloated, often has better pricing, more formats available to download. Most importantly many of the 'smaller' artists tend to be there.
runsonrum
I also use Jellyfin along with an Android app call Synfonium. It has heaps of customisation and works with many media providers including Emby, Plex, Subsonic etc.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=app.symfonik.m...
VonGuard
Would you believe that SoulSeek is still a thing? It is. P2P 4evah.
alt227
Soulseek seems to be still around because it was adopted by serious music lovers who are also techies. Browsing the libraries of some of the users on there can be breathtaking as to the size of libraries and amount of care in curating and categorising them. I dont think anything bette came along so people are just still there sharing their libraries.
Minor49er
You can find damn near everything on Soulseek. It can't be beaten
HollowEyes
Will check finanmp, jellyfin is nice that it offers http. The web app is buggy. Kind of 90 percent there. Then I read they are doing a rewrite.
I subscribe to the odd free service. Fallback to my cd/ripped collection that is large. But I am totally bored with it.
Moved to radio mixes via SoundCloud and mixcloud and advert free stations. Which is pretty satisfying but for bookmarking, that requires interruption.
pimeys
I'd love to try Jellyfin and Finamp at some point. Last time the biggest issue was how it would not transcode the music from flac to opus in realtime. Plex can do it pretty fast even with a super low power Intel Atom. The provided AAC is quite a bit slower, so I'm still staying with Plex and Plexamp.
unkoman
If you scrobble your music the discoverability is covered by similar artists so on through last.fm
tastysandwich
Oh man I thought I was the only one who still had a carefully curated digital library... I threw out my CDs a long time ago, but my digital library is my baby. I've been curating this since I was 10. It's who I am!
Most of the time, you only need to listen to music on your phone or your computer, right? My main collection (mostly FLAC) is on a NAS with RAID.
But then I've got some scripts that maintain a copy of that collection, except converted to MP3 at a variable bitrate [1]. I just store the entirety of it on my phone. It's 107GB.
Adding a new album to my phone is as simple as using a SMB app to copy from my NAS.
Now when I'm stuck in traffic under a tunnel, or driving through the country, my music keeps playing!
[1] - a variable bitrate (VBR) keeps a smaller file size but pretty decent sound quality. it just lowers the bitrate when there's silence or simple sounds, where a high bitrate isn't required.
LarryDarrell
I do roughly the same thing, but I use Syncthing. I always had trouble keeping my phone connected reliably enough to run a long running script, and Syncthing works well.
I have a 1TB sdcard in my phone that has a mirror of my 600GB+ library. I use Foobar2000 on my phone because it's easy to just pin my Music folder from the filesystem and navigate through the folders. Just about every other music player out there seems to be designed around importing tags into a library, which I don't like.
urbanporcupine
I do the same thing, but I am facing some read only problem. The changes have stopped getting synced. I need to investigate more. Do you face any syncing problem?
sen
> Oh man I thought I was the only one who still had a carefully curated digital library... I threw out my CDs a long time ago, but my digital library is my baby. I've been curating this since I was 10. It's who I am!
You’re definitely not alone. I’ve been collecting MP3s since they first began, choosing 1-2 songs a night to leave downloading over dialup. I still have ever MP3 I ever downloaded short of deleting the files from that period where you’d download a song on IRC and it’d be something else named wrong on purpose.
I do use Apple Music for my family/kids, but my MP3 collection is one of my prized possessions and the basis of nearly all my daily music listening.
siquick
Have you ever bought any of that music you prize?
alt227
Music itself has no value now, streaming services killed that. If you like an artist go to their shows and buy their merch, thats how artists make money these days.
Teever
I prefer to not pay record companies to listen to music of long dead musicians, and I try and see as many live shows of performers who are still touring, and I buy their shirts.
HollowEyes
I have wasted so much money on music I barely bother with. Lots of stuff is a one play only for me these days and streaming suits that for experimentation. I do pay for ad-hoc streaming but don't get value out of it (time), nevermind the artists. And yet it's still better value than what I used to pay for records.
weq
I have music constantly on in my life, but you know what, i really hate hearing the same songs over and over again. I used to leech music and have a collection of it (i still do) but i prefer humans mixing it up, in random orders, with different sythns, styles or vibes over it. So while i have never subscribed to any streaming services, i do subscribe to DI.FM. I get access from any device i have, as many as i want, and instead of scouring the net constantly for new music, i now just feed off the bounty. They have sister stations for all styles.
Literly i have music on all day everyday. I have different styles for different moods, times of the day, emotions. When you listen at that rate, you either love repeats or you spend your whole life looking for the next song. Curating a playlist is most of the battle.
pjmlp
Nope, maybe it shows my age, but I still buy CDs and them ripp them, or buy MP3s.
Then I have my set of playlists that I either sync to the phone, or set of SD/USB cards to plug into the car.
I am not keen in losing my audio collection to some subscription service.
Movies is another matter, it is most throw away content anyway besides some jewels, and for those, DVD/Blue-Ray. Just in case, someone makes the comparisasion with Netflix and friends.
spinadisk
I wonder if there is any advantage to a digital recording converted to say high quality aac, flac or whatever over ripping from a cd. Lots of my cds have very poor production on them.
And on that note, how many recordings have been revisited? Can they improve them from re-masters, have they been, are they, or is that all a con to get you to buy them again?
commandersaki
Yep I store my music collection on my phone as MP3s on my iPhone 6s -- only 32GB. My collection is only MP3s to begin with anyways, and I keep a copy on multiple desktops and backblaze, using backblaze as origin/source to distribute to the rest.
I only ever listen in the car. I create playlists that I can vocalise so that Siri can pick them up and play them so I can listen to stuff hands free. It's a pretty good system.
The only real issue is the iPhone can sync to only one mac/library, and you can't do the reverse which is sync your library from your phone back to a mac or Windows or Linux. I can't imagine a good solution for this without redesigning the interface to upload your music is like copying to another filesystem -- but Apple doesn't want you thinking about filesystems anymore.
TacticalCoder
> Oh man I thought I was the only one who still had a carefully curated digital library.
I totally do too. And we're not alone. I not only ripped all my old CDs to FLAC (which I use both as archive/backup and source) but I still buy CDs. Nobody want CDs anymore, so I just buy them used. And then I rip them. And then the CDs go into a box in the garage/shed.
My car doesn't take FLAC files but it's got its own storage so I convert the FLAC to 320 kbps MP3s. I don't bother "streaming" from my phone (which I rarely have with me anyway): the music is directly in the car's SSD.
At home I play the FLAC files directly.
dawnerd
Plus there’s still tons of older albums not on streaming services. I’m big on older theme park soundtracks and many of them never made it to digital officially. In fact I just paid over 130 bucks for a cd.
secretsatan
If you use iOS, you can set music synching to automatically encode to mp3 when synching with the phone, that worked really well for me, for a while.....
Apple music, if you keep your own music, has completely gone off the rails for me this last year.
I couldn't sync for ages because it told me my device was full, it had just lost it's handle on the music, none of the syncing options would add or remove anything, eventually, the other night, I went into the settings for the music app and manually deleted everything and resynced and it finally started working again!
But then, 12 hours later after sync completes (Same as you, around 100GB of music), I discover the album artwork is completely messed up, almost no albums have the correct artwork, they've all been swapped around at random, all albums have the same artwork for all tracks, just that they're completely the wrong ones.
Checking the apple forums, it seems this is not uncommon, and has been happening for a year. I did actually notice that one or 2 albums were wrong but put it down to slight glitch I could live with, but having them all wrong is infuriating, I recognise many albums by their covers and it helps browsing to pick something out.
I really loved iTunes, especially for automatically storing the music in a nice structured directory format. I tried apple music briefly when it first came out, and the first thing it did was to screw up albums, splitting up compilations, getting the wrong editions of albums and started downgrading all my unencoded music, put me off for life, I'm quite happy managing it myself and don't have to fear losing favourite albums due to licensing issues.
brewdad
I do the same thing only I keep opus files on my phone. They sound just as good as mp3 in my listening environment and take up even less space on my phone.
wldcordeiro
It's funny Youtube Music was mentioned because Google Play Music was actually great for listening to your music and having a curated library of stuff you uploaded along with the music on the service. When they killed that in favor of Youtube Music I noticed the "library" experience there is seemingly intentionally hobbled. The artist page is sorted by the "artist" field not "album artist" and then on top of that instead of using a nicer page[0] they use a playlist view of all their songs. Additionally the library view is intentionally split with a "uploads" and "library" tab unlike in Google Play Music where it would provide a nice shared experience with the nicer artist pages as well.
[0] https://music.youtube.com/channel/UCdrA9E1ir8pDttg7vTqrSxQ
midwesternerer
YouTube music is awful. I hate how everything is organized. Is it even possible to search your library? I haven't figured out the actual point of adding anything to your library because searching takes you to all available options every time. And it is never sorted the way you want. For example, if you search an artist, you get their top three albums, but then you have to click into it and search for the one album you want to listen to. I'd rather the top three albums be the ones I have in my library, not their most popular current albums. I don't listen to as wide of variety of music as I did in college and I think a lot of that is yt music makes search so difficult that I can't get to any stuff in have not listened to recently.
I remember thinking how disappointed I was when I moved from Microsoft's Zune to play music. Now I'd be happy just to get play music back
midwesternerer
Oh, I just figured out how to search my library. But I'll still argue that the button for it is not intuitive at all.
tigrezno
Unsubscribed from Youtube Music because no matter how many times I disliked reggaeton, they pushed it to me.
Also, no real form of changing country for suggestions.
flipcoder
The transfer from Google Music to Youtube Music didn't even work for me. It kept giving me an error message about my account not being valid.
CivBase
I used GPM for that exact reason. When Google announced they were killing it for YTM, I setup an Emby server and never looked back. YTM is an abismal service.
Supposedly Jellyfin is pretty good now, but that wasn't an option at the time and I've been comfortable with Emby.
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HollowEyes
It's a dumpster fire but for recommended mixes and the odd weird lifted from video rarity.
nouryqt
I use navidrome[0], its a music streaming server you can selfhost and then use a player that supports the subsonic api for playback. I use the strawberry[1] music player on my desktop and substreamer[2] on android. Navidrome can also scrobble your music to last.fm if you tell it to. The actual music files are mounted with rclone and --vfs-cache-mode full to a directory.
[0] https://www.navidrome.org/
zerovox
Another Navidrome user here, hosted on a $5 Linode Nano. I have rclone set up to mount an S3 bucket with the music files. Scanning them is a bit slow, but otherwise I've had no issues.
I highly recommend Symphonium as an Android client. It is receiving constant updates, highly polished, has an offline mode, Android Auto support, and so much more.
pedrogpimenta
How many Gb do you have on and how much do you pay for that S3 bucket? I'm thinking of doing that but I wonder what'll be the cost. I'm not sure what to put on the AWS calculator, becasue it depends on usage and whatnot!
blactuary
I have a little over 250GB and I pay $5/month. This is using DO Spaces S3 compatible, not AWS S3. The droplet is $7/month so $12 total. Never even gets close to being out of resources.
captn3m0
TIL Strawberry (Clementine fork). I found the relevant page that lists differences on the Wiki: https://wiki.strawberrymusicplayer.org/wiki/Differences_from...
I’ve been happy with Clementine, but I wish it didn’t have that many features - going to give strawberry a spin.
b3lvedere
I also use Navidrome on a Raspberry Pi 3 with a 2.5" 1TB disk connected to it via usb. I don't use metadata and or last.fm; My folder structure info enough for me. Easy enough to play music on mobile devices around home.
For playing music in the living room i use an Ikea Sonos (Symfonisk bookshelf) and the standard Sonos app connecting to the collection via smb.
For the car i transfered (most of) the collection to a sd card. Makes it also it's onw backup :)
I could also use Spotify since the kids love it, but i don't really use it that much myself.
blactuary
Another Navidrome user here. I used Subsonic for a decade before the developer eventually abandoned it, and Navidrome is a great replacement (and doesn't make me install Java like Subsonic).
I host mine on a Digital Ocean VPS with 1 core and 1GB of RAM, syncing my music from my home PC to DO Spaces storage with rclone. Works perfectly
nntwozz
And if you don't want to scrobble to last.fm (or listenbrainz) you can self-host Maloja https://github.com/krateng/maloja
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MVorlm
As someone currently running a Navidrome instance with 40k songs...yeah, I wouldn't wish that on anyone(horrible performance), but it is an option I suppose.
zerez
As someone also hosting thousands of songs who has been using Navidrome for months I can't say I experienced any performance issues. The codebase is fairly small so it should be fairly straight forward to investigate and narrow down the performance issues you're experiencing.
Liquix
where do you notice performance suffering? hosting a 30k+ track navidrome library on a modest server and haven't noticed any slowdowns
MVorlm
In two places. The web client takes _minutes_ to load the artist page. It's slow enough that I get the Firefox warning stating that the page is slowing down Firefox. The web client (seemingly) doesn't load the song/tracklist in chunks and attempts to load every song at once(at least on the artist page).
The second issue isn't specifically a "Navidrome" problem, but every iOS and Mac desktop client I've used(and I've tried _every_ one that Navidrome lists on their site) attempts to load every song on load and basically becomes unusable.
I'm about two notches away from writing my own music streaming server. Navidrone is barely functional for me...and falls under software I hate, but there are no better options.
MikusR
I run navidrome on raspberry pi 4 with 160000 songs and no slowdowns in web or symfonium
ibroadcast
Hi Cory,
We feel your pain! We are in the same position as you and this is exactly why we exist! We scrobble to Last.fm, have native apps for iOS and Android, a web based player for the computer, and tons of device support in one form or another – Chromecast, Alexa, Roku, Apple TV, Android TV, and more! Our core, free service gives you unlimited access to all your music, device support, and no limitations on uploading, recommendations, nor playlists. On top of that, we are always improving our recommendation system, which recommends only music inside your own library. We never modify your original files, and we never change your metadata. Give us a try – it costs nothing but a bit of your time – and we hope we can fill that void in your music addiction.
Rock on!
The iBroadcast Team
int_19h
How are you able to keep the core service free, given the storage requirements?
Also, I couldn't find a list of plans on your website - it's just a bunch of "sign up" links, but I would prefer to see what exactly you're offering before I sign up for anything (even if it's free).
Ndymium
If you scroll down and click on "premium service" in the text before the last sign up button, you get to this page: https://www.ibroadcast.com/premium/
This seems to have the details you want.
ibroadcast
Our premium subscriptions offset that storage cost. You can read more about what you get here:
stenardo
I was looking for someone mentioning it! After the death of Google Play Music, iBroadcast became my favorite player! It has everything I need
draxil
Ibroadcast is amazing!
softjobs
Excellent service!
thot_experiment
what if, and I know this is totally insane/impossible but what if there were some sort of a small non volatile memory type card you could put into a phone with a large amount of storage and then you could put music files on it and just always have them with you! you could even combine that with like some sort of copper conduit to an ear-speaker and then you could have music in very high fidelity and never ever worry about not being able to listen to your favorite tunes, if only there were some such technology I think with modern tech you could even achieve low costs, like $30 for a quarter tera, that should fit at least a few albums
UncleEntity
I tried that but when I popped open the little door and installed the memory card I couldn’t make phone calls and surf the internet for some odd reason. Maybe the hackers got in or something, I did find the card lying on the ground when I went to the social security office.
Also have been having a hard time figuring out where to plug in the headphones, like, a really hard time.
HollowEyes
I dicked about with jellyfin server and an old android phone connected to a stereo for remote play. Almost good, but WiFi and battery save kicked in and play was spurious. Transcoded library to opus, shoved on the memory card. Turned on airplane mode. Jobs a goodun.
Thrymr
Another solution that is surprisingly powerful is Logitech Media Server [0], which despite its name is open source and cross-platform. The server can run on any unix-ish machine, and clients can be any number of Raspberry Pis or ESP32s, or custom boxes, or any computer. Multiroom syncing is great. Works for local library and streaming. There is even a modern web interface available [1]. I looked into many of the other solutions in this thread, and LMS suited my needs best.
xn
I use squeezeboxes to stream music around the house, using the Squeezer app on my phone to control them. The Squeeze Player app works well for streaming to my phone, although I haven't spent time figuring out how to get this working from outside my LAN; I use Squeezer to download music from LMS to my phone.
The LMS music directory is managed by git-annex. I use git-annex to sync music to my computer for playing locally with mpd and to make new music I rip from CDs available to LMS.
alelos
I’m surprised not a lot of people suggest LMS now days. I’ve been using it for years and I highly recommend it for streaming your library, locally or remotely. Poor man’s sonos with multidevice sync as well!
It has an active community and a variety of very useful plugins. Heck, I use it as a Spotify frontend as well.
Just make sure to use the material UI plug-in linked above, a lot of people get bumped out with the built in ui upon first install.
jrm4
Generally, I hate the experience of streaming from a service. Occasionally to discover, but youtube's good enough for that.
For me, the greatest unsung innovation was the car USB player. That took it from the 10 CD's or so to basically whatever I want, however I want.
As for streaming my music, I was an MPD user for years, but the client/server experience was often fiddly. Once I discovered mstream (one very good web interface, no client/server separation, honors folders) I never had to look back.
dreamcompiler
> For me, the greatest unsung innovation was the car USB player. That took it from the 10 CD's or so to basically whatever I want, however I want.
Amen. I only need my music on my phone with earbuds, and in the car. So I copied it all to a 128GB USB stick, which sounds better and is less finicky than bluetooth. If I add a new song or album to the master library on my computer, I just pull the USB stick and rsync it.
The only problem is the Tesla USB music player has a terrible UI, but I set it to play random songs from my library and that's usually good enough.
l72
But some of the car USB players are so terrible. My 2012 Buick doesn't allow navigating by artist then by album. It's either top level artist or top level album. It also ignores the track numbers and plays songs in alphabetical order! It is completely useless.
jrm4
A lot of truth to that; sometimes it takes a little work to figure how to "game" them by knowing how to your particular one handles tags. Mine (Toyota Entune) generally handles albums correctly, but if I want a custom list of songs that doesn't clutter things, I'll just retag them on the USB with an id3 editor, e.g. give them all the same "artist" and "album."
pnw
Roon: a very promising service, but one geared more towards the audiophile audience and with hardware requirements I'm not interested in investing in at this point.
If you've spent all of the time and effort to put your audio collection on local storage that's also encrypted and mirrored, you are the audiophile audience!
Roon is a great option. I don't really understand OP's objection? Roon supports over 800 different playback devices in addition to software so it's pretty unlikely you don't already have something that supports it.
TeMPOraL
> If you've spent all of the time and effort to put your audio collection on local storage that's also encrypted and mirrored, you are the audiophile audience!
There are two main meanings of the word "audiophile". It can describe 1) a person whose music playing experience involves more than just the default music player app that shipped with their phone, and/or iTunes, and/or Spotify. It, much more commonly, also describes 2) a person who buys diamond-coated gold CAT-6 Ethernet cables, because they make the zeroes rounder and the ones straighter as the bits travel from their computer to their $2000 preamp, tuned to inject noise that makes the music sound just right.
OP is definitely 1), but I think they also want to make sure they're not confused with 2).
foolwhofollows
Is there room in your paradigm for an audiophile 1.5? Someone who buys the $2000 pre-amp but knows full-well that interconnects are snake-oil; someone who knows that spending more than $1000 per separate will not be worth the money unless you have a dedecated listening room with accoustic panelling.
kuschku
Even then, $1000 is very unlikely to be a meaningful investment.
The hard upper limit is the equipment the mastering engineer used to listen to the track when mastering it. Even if your equipment can reproduce more detail, that's likely unwanted detail.
Something you'll frequently notice when listening to youtube shorts on a big home theater setup – a lot of wind noise below 80Hz which the author couldn’t notice, but which is deafening. The same, though more subtle, happens when listening to professionally mastered audio with an excessive audiophile setup.
TeMPOraL
There is definitely a room in my paradigm for this category. There is room in my heart. This is who I aspire to be, if I ever feel like getting more serious about music. What I don't have, however, is the right term for this type of person. I just don't think they'll call themselves audiophile - they wouldn't want others to confuse them with the other "audiophiles" - i.e. the philistines (1) and the crackpots (2).
heleninboodler
Roon seems very expensive for a service where I provide the actual disk space for the music.
foolwhofollows
Their main USP IMO is their catalogue and their multi-room support.
The catalogue is a work of art - incredibly detailed information about every artist and album, lyrics for most. I know a lot of other streaming services have good info about the things in their catalogue but, as has already been mentioned, these catalogues are volatile where Roon's catalogue doesn't carry the risk of being pruned at any time.
diblasio
I also got stuck on that same part. I'm just going to guess they thought there was a requirement to run the Roon server on a Nucleus (the premium hardware they sell to host Roon). I personally run mine on my NAS in a docker container and it's been running great for years.
ocimbote
I still blame my younger self for falling for the sirens of "access the world's biggest library", without realizing that said libraries gain and lose contents all the time and favor most popular contents. The fool I was.
At the time, I slowly got rid of my handcrafted library and only too late did I realize my mistake.
TeMPOraL
Don't blame yourself too hard. It's the marketing scoundrels that lied to you (and everyone else). They told you they were selling access to a library, but a library carries connotations of a mostly append-only collection. They, however, really sold you access to a commercial catalog - the opposite of a stable collection.
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I tried to make this after Google Play Music died, but I never found any success.
Here's my site. You can try it for free: https://inter.tube
It supports almost all of Subsonic (highly recommend play:Sub on iOS). FLAC works. I never re-encode your songs, they are kept byte-for-byte. It doesn't support Last.fm (yet?) but I don't think it would be too hard to add. It respects metadata tags. There are still some glitches, and the web player kind of sucks. You can (batch) edit metadata on the web but it does not change the file, just the web/API interfaces.
To be honest I have mostly lost motivation to work on this, but I was aiming at exactly the pain points the author of this article describes. Send me an email (profile) or tweet/comment if you think it's worth pursuing again.