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thanatos519
bj-rn
Oh, double-pasted. Unfortunately can't edit anymore.
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lordfrito
This is simply amazing. There were so many images there that are photorealistic enough that I was trying to figure out was this a real live action project? Or had someone simply staged the images as part of a larger "art project " or something...
Took me by surprise that this was AI generated, although in hindsight it should have been obvious. For me, this is the moment I realized AI art had become something "useful", and the world isn't going to be the same.
I can see where this is going... The commercial implications are enormous. Speeding up the concept art process for movies, etc. As someone here mentioned, why not make entire movies this way? Once they figure out how to animate this stuff, it puts the movie industry out of business.
I can only imagine what my grandkids are going to be using this for.
vl
>why not make entire movies this way?
Literally everything will be made this way. In 10 years anything you’ll watch will be custom-generated specifically for you in real time.
acomjean
Except my understanding is you can’t copyright it. Which might be an issue, depending on what you are doing with it.
YeGoblynQueenne
Bookmarked. Will check back in ten years.
vl
When you will try to check back, content of the page will be generated on the spot to soothe your preconceived notions.
72mena
> Once they figure out how to animate this stuff, it puts the movie industry out of business.
I'm also intrigued about the potential of AI-generated animation.
However, I don't think the industry would be "out of business", but rather they would simply evolve into a new phase. The established movie industry will most likely have access to the most expensive and performant AI models to make short and long form animations, which would be time and cost prohibiting for hobbyists.
lordfrito
Agree, the movie industry won't be out of business overnight.
Like IBM, the rumors of "company X" demise are greatly exaggerated, and this tech is far from mature. But my god at first I thought this was real. The clock is now ticking, fast forward several generations, and what are we dealing with here?
To me this is a Napster moment. If your job is related to the movie making industry at all, you should be sitting up and taking notice. The industry is a massive/slow behemoth that is a ripe target for this kind of disruption. What's the point of building sets once these tools become photorealistic? Yes we're still in the Uncanny Valley, but that's just a matter of time to solve these kinds of problems (deepfakes anyone?).
CGI killed the traditional animation industry. Even Disney shuttered it's traditional animation department. I think we're looking at the same kind of disruption here on the live action side of things. Why have a studio lot at all ? Equipment rental, prop rental, stunt actors, logistics, food service, you name it. Talk about the end of brick and mortar.
My guess is it will look a lot like the music industry, which has essentially become all Marketing and Promotion, where the actual production of music has almost become an afterthought. The Marketing arms of the industry may be the only thing that survives the transition in some recognizable form.
There will always be a demand for "live action", just like traditional animation is still being done in some niche corners. [1] But that's the exception, not the rule. You'll continue to have enthusiasts using traditional methods for the sake of it. But I think the clock is now ticking. It may be in its primitive infancy, but add time and the tech stack will eventually mature.
Lately, more and more, I feel like I'm actually living in the future.
tetris11
There won't be a sea of new young faces trying to break into a role anymore, or be an extra, or work on the stage crew, since they just won't be able to compete with the AI alternatives. Hollywood thrives on a human pyramid of desperately motivated individuals trying to get noticed and willing to do anything. This might shatter that base, and could have knock on consequences: agent-star exclusivity, entourages, glam mags, production crews. Celebrities will be the same ones we see today, the door for new talent is closing fast.
lordfrito
This. The trend has already started, tech like this will (eventually) accelerate the transition.
People don't go to movies to see movie stars anymore. They go to see Marvel characters. [1]
I think we're at the bookend of a transitional era for movies (and for many other things). Transition started with Napster, iPod, Netflix, etc. and ended with the "mainstreamization" of Marvel. Traditional movies are dead, what's left is something that really doesn't look anything like the movie industry I grew up with. Like other art forms (opera, theater, orchestras, etc) traditional movie story telling just isn't where it's at any more, the "masses" have moved on. The industry used to be full of passionate creative types. Now it's full of people working their butts off to get their name somewhere in the 20 minutes of credits at the end of a film, for the prestige of being able to tell their friends they work in the industry. It's a self-sustaining business at this point, full of nepotism, cronyism, and people happy just to stay employed doing whatever it is they do (digital work, setting up lights, renting equipment, managing the logistics).
I've asked my cinemaphile friends if they can name a big up and coming director? Who is the next Tarantino? No one has any real answer. At best I get JJ Abrams, who (at 56) is on the tail end of his career, and if anything he's a symptom of the problem (mom and dad worked in the business). It's a group of insiders churning out jobs for their kids and a steady stream of income. Hollywood is nothing more than a brand now.
Whatever the "future" is, it's here. More Marvel, less relevance.
gsatic
Man do ppl even know Jodorowsky?
Cause he would definitely shit on AI generated art. He was bored of mindless American shit long before anyone was complaining - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNQZF0KF-zw
dav_Oz
Well, who knows him really?
What I‘d gather about him over the decades of work, is that he deliberately uses provocation/expressive words for his art/communication.
I think in the context of that little clip he was hinting at the ruthless commercialisation of American cinema/comics; and indeed since then it had well developed to today‘s Marvelization of Hollywood[0], a multi-billion industry of its own.
He is 93 now, so I think he doesn’t give a shit about anything at this point, but I like to think that back then as a young artist he would have embraced/explored/experimented with AI generated good shit to enhance/help his artistic vision. In the end it seems that mattered to him most.
[0]https://www.paudal.com/2022/11/24/quentin-tarantino-marveliz...
gsatic
Commercialization and info overload has diluted the impact of ALL art to just sensory stimulation.
After the oohs and aahs there is nothing else going on in anyones head, cause there is always something else thrown infront of them on their infinite streams.
And while AI generated art is just another tool in a giant warehouse of ever expanding tools, who gives a shit? Cause take a look around at the impact of the best of the best. There is none.
dav_Oz
>And while AI generated art is just another tool in a giant warehouse of ever expanding tools, who gives a shit? Cause take a look around at the impact of the best of the best. There is none.
The quality of that “tool” in particular is imho markedly different as opposed to non-AI digital tools. It opens up a space of possibilities for “visual art” which is now tangentially comparable to the impact of computers (i.e. computations per unit time) to the art of proofs in mathematics. One way of using its power is by calculating pi to the n-th place (“eye candy” in “visual art speak”) or another to overcome the sheer amount of calculations necessary (technical limitations) for a viable proof.[0] If there is one way to prove it can inspire confidence for a more elegant/aesthetically pleasing/understandable proof.
As for the impact, I agree, we have yet to see. Maybe I’m too optimistic.
One [1] of my favourite music clips from now over 20 years ago which looks (in its sterility) entirely AI/computer generated but actually is modelled frame by frame in Lightwave 3D (by the artist Alex Rutterford).
[0]https://www.quantamagazine.org/computer-helps-prove-long-sou...
libraryatnight
I don't believe that anyone who says anything about how X or Y as a Jodorowsky movie would have been $positiveHyperbole has seen anything other than the documentary about the unmade Dune movie.
First, because his most compelling stuff is heavily surrealist and I've found the audience for that is niche and has very little overlap with what modern Sci-Fi/Fantasy fans have in mind. Second, because at this point whatever they have in their minds for what it would have been is likely an impossible standard for any director, much less the one that made El Topo or The Dance of Reality (not a slight, just pointing out this guy makes art pieces - not blockbusters).
darepublic
I experimented with midjourney and while it produced some interesting pieces I couldn't imagine creating something like these tron images with it. Like I couldn't get midjourney to even create a proper looking chess piece for instance
msephton
Having read the responses of the guy that generated these, the prompt is as simple as
production still from 1976 of Jodorowsky's TRON, 20 ASA 35mm --v 4 --ar 3:2
production still in version 4 doing most of the heavy lifting, with the year and film propeties giving a bit more vibe, and of course the overarching theme of TRON in the style of Jodorowsky. Add some extra words to differentiate scenes, such as light cycle or disc or computer. Add wide aspect ratio, and that's it. So it's 99% Midjourney. Mind blowing.
baron816
I’m always blown away by the images Midjourney is creating: https://www.midjourney.com/showcase/.
I think there is some skill in creating these, but the output can be really amazing and it’s constantly getting better.
naillo
I was about to say 'I can't tell if this is AI generated or not at this point' mostly as a joke based on first impressions, but it's actually shocking that it turns out to be.
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johnfn
Version 4 of Midjourney, released 2-3 weeks ago, is an outrageous improvement over all previous versions of Midjourney, and has gone mostly unnoticed by HN. IMO, v4 Midjourney is to DALLE2 what DALLE2 was to all previous AI art generation.
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abledantheman
Those are lovely images.
However while there is an awful lot of 'background symmetry' AI seems woefully incapable of 'human figure' symmetry that, to me anyway, it really sticks out. Eyes not quite the same size, breasts pointing in markedly different directions, bone structure on the face markedly different to each side.
To that end I am also amazed at how forgiving our brains are for this stuff (a bit like being able to listen to music over a fuzzy, in/out AM station without much bother).
Anyway, thanks to whoever made this. I think there could be a market in 'imaginary film posters'.
P.S. Did it really need the 'Disney' logo on it though?
btbuildem
While we're generally symmetrical, the human body is full of wonderful irregularities -- different sized eyes or slightly longer/shorter limbs etc are exceedingly common.
biztos
> Eyes not quite the same size, breasts pointing in markedly different directions, bone structure on the face markedly different to each side.
Jodorowsky would absolutely cast actors with those physical characteristics if they could be found, so in this case I’d say feature not bug.
dEnigma
> To that end I am also amazed at how forgiving our brains are for this stuff (a bit like being able to listen to music over a fuzzy, in/out AM station without much bother).
My brain was so forgiving that I didn't even really notice the asymmetries until I looked at the images a second time after reading your comment. I agree that especially in the case of eyes it distracts a bit. Those are generally pretty symmetrical (I say, with one eye that is always a bit narrower compared to the other ^^)
msephton
The symmetry of human faces is possible, Midjourney can now do it easily, but the promoter didn't ask for it in this instance.
323
Big opportunity for studios.
Instead of selling the 4K version of an old movie, now they can re-imagine it in 10 different styles.
javajosh
This is the most interesting aspect of all of this. It works for music, too: what if your audio playback device could modify a song in real-time to add or remove instruments, or play in a different style. The same could be done with a movie. This also has great applications for musicians looking to learn a piece. YouTube's ability to slow a video without modifying pitch has been really great for this application, too.
echelon
You can already do vocal replacement and create new covers of old songs.
High quality pitch matching and vocal replacement is here [1] and is going to be big. You can generate Smash Mouth's "All Star" as every single president, celebrity, vocalist, or cartoon character. Or whatever you feed it.
Within the next year the field will move onto changing instrumentals and generating novel tracks.
[1] The tool I've written and will be deploying as the next version of FakeYou.com does this at high fidelity
stemlord
Wouldnt that completely diminish the value of film? I feel like this will kill studios.
stavros
And so can we!
mortenjorck
This feels like a peek at the first truly practical application of AI art beyond “I need a blurry illustration for my blog post”. I could easily imagine this as the first step in an art director's creative process of exploring the look of a project quickly and iteratively, yet at high fidelity.
Even with the unavoidable AI artifacts, the aesthetic of these images is incredibly evocative.
open-source-ux
I could easily imagine this as the first step in an art director's creative process
I had a similar thought. What will AI-generated images means for production designers in film? Will the easy availability of AI images redefine a whole class of design or artist roles? Only time will tell, but I suspect it will happen quickly.
Gene5ive
The amount of time it would take to edit these to remove the subtle AI nonsense/artifacts/dysmorphia is a fraction of that time it would take to make the images from scratch. There will still be art departments but they will be 10x smaller.
khazhoux
I'll be the one to call B.S.
E.g., here, I'm skeptical about the specular reflections, which show a blue light on the left, a yellow light on the right, and a (seemingly) physically-accurate transition down the middle. Plus the too-plausible DOF in the background.
https://www.djfood.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Jodo-Tron-...
This image, with the patterns following the 3D contour of her head. And the glossy reflection of the lights on the tabletop. https://www.djfood.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Jodo-Tron-...
My wager is this is possibly using some AI-generated imagery, but it is largely a human art project.
khazhoux
EDIT: I'm now playing with "--v 4" parameter in Midjourney, and getting amazing results. I'll have to rescind my wager!
jazzyjackson
Yea, I could eat crow but I don't see any of the typical artifacts here, detail remains coherent all the way down. "Big if true", wouldn't it be simple for these images to be distributed with a signature by the midjourney API so that us doubters could check which version of the algorithm was used?
corysama
I get ya both. But, I frequently see plausible-ish reflections and DOF in MJ generations. Usually there is some error you have to look for. For example, 2 out of 3 windows reflected.
This image shows what I’m taking about. The vertical lines are reflected, but not the horizontal lit lines. Bonus: jumbled fingers https://www.djfood.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Jodo-Tron-...
stolenmerch
To my eye, they are clearly synthetic elements composited together in Photoshop or similar with a keen artistic, human eye. Doesn't keep it from being amazing, but there's no way these faux film stills are coming straight out of a generator.
moralestapia
Yes, this is bull. Midjourney is great, but not this great.
From his FB post:
"(All images created in Midjourney with zero post-imaging, except for the movie poster with typography done in photoshop)"
No way there's zero post-prod.
miav
It's plausible that this is a fake, but consider that what you described is based on reasonably simple physics, something than AI that's capable of generating human faces could likely figure out.
What makes me believe this is actually AI generated art is the hands. They're all fucked up, in every image. I don't know why, but all image generation AIs I've seen struggle with the human hand.
colordrops
Are you unfamiliar with the recent release of MidJourney v4? The results are mind-blowing. Why would an artist attribute their work to an AI?
khazhoux
Huh... I just played with "--v 4" and I'm getting the mind-blowing results.
You've changed my mind.
kebman
Why aren't film producers throwing money at Jodorowsky? The visuals and stories he'd tell would surely be mind blowing. (I ofc know these are AI generated images, but it still makes me wonder.) For instance I'm certain that it's his influence that made Nicolas Winding Refn make Neon Demon.
pjc50
It's extremely difficult to make new "cult" cinema deliberately; this kind of thing (especially the psychadelia influences) is simply out of style, and middle-budget pictures are vanishing.
The nearest thing you might find today .. maybe Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets? Luc Besson has some of the same pulp influences.
Maybe we just skip the middle steps and have the AI make the film.
MonkeyMalarky
It would be cool if these AI tools ushered in an era of low-budget cult movies that have the visual effects of big budget movies. Think a few college students with a green screen in the garage producing epic sci-fi.
speed_spread
It's only a matter of time before we get there. Models will be built for film. It's a matter of scaling the resources. I'd imagine the computing increase would be mostly proportional to the number of frames to be generated.
kergonath
> The nearest thing you might find today .. maybe Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets? Luc Besson has some of the same pulp influences.
Yes. Valérian is on the mainstream side of that 1980s sci-fi movement. One of the authors also was an artist for the Fifh Element. And a heavy influence on George Lucas (several Star Wars scenes are straight out of Valérian).
> Maybe we just skip the middle steps and have the AI make the film.
Several of these artists would have loved to have AIs to use back in the day. Very fitting in the whole artistic project.
gedy
> Maybe we just skip the middle steps and have the AI make the film.
I think we are nearing that in the next 10-12 years, and I imagine forward-thinking media corporations don't want that.
meindnoch
Maybe because he’s 93?
I mean, I’m no fan of ageism, but let’s be realistic…
kergonath
He’s been groundbreaking since the 1970s or so. He’s a difficult person to work with and he’s very opinionated and hates Hollywood, though, which probably does not help.
kebman
Yes, you might be onto something.
prepend
Have you watched any of Jodorowsky’s films? He’s pretty principled and I don’t think he’d make a movie that studios like and would make money.
kranke155
Holy Mountain made big chunks of money. Jodorowsky is the only alt/psychedelic filmmaker I know of who ever made money. That’s how he got to keep making films.
camoufleur
After the Holy Mountain in 1973, it wasn't until 1989 he made another proper 'Jodorowsky' movie. Then until the 2010s when he was able to make two more films from crowdfunding. I don't think his films have made much money at all, compared to someone like Lynch who was able to get movies made for a long time.
prepend
Holy Mountain made $104k on a $750k budget [0].
Definitely not big chunks of money.
I liked Holy Mountain and I like crazy stuff. I’m not sure how he got his projects funded but it’s not based on his box office success.
El Topo also lost money.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holy_Mountain_(1973_film)
kebman
I have, and I think they're epic. That's why I think Jodorowsky has a big cult following that would have made it a financially sound idea to give him both money and creative freedom to make more movies.
Maxburn
"Dune, the greatest film that was never made" looked like it could have been incredible. Both casting and asthetic was in place, with the story they had it would have taken that film in a different and some would say more interesting direction.
Still very much a fan of how Villeneuve is handling things now with this established direction.
lloeki
Jodorowski, Möbius, Giger in the same mix, the art is mind blowing
https://www.iamag.co/the-art-of-jodorowskys-dune/
https://dunebook.wixsite.com/dune
http://www.james-atkinson.co.uk/blog/alejandro_jodorowsky_39...
Maxburn
Giger at least saw his art go somewhere, wonderful work.
Syme
Villeneuve's movie as of now lacks some visual ambition and punch, and these "BADASS!" Momoa action scenes lowered its value, and the soundtrack felt generic.
I'd say the Dune 1984 "Alternative Edition Redux" remains the best version, yet. It's available on Youtube and definitely worth a watch,
gernb
Because as visually interesting as his films are they are barely watchable. I love how insane they are and I love the imagery but I've never watched one twice.
staticautomatic
Maybe because of what happened to Dune
Maxburn
What happened? I was never clear on why he didn't get the nod for that, cast in place etc..
pjc50
Having had the pleasure of listening to Chris Foss (concept artist for Dune) talk about it, it seems that Jodorosky and his circle were simply too drunk and/or high at that point to actually complete a movie.
andrekandre
if you watch the documentary "jodorosky's dune" he goes over it, and basically boiling down to the studios "liking the concept" but "not getting the director" especially that he wanted total creative freedom and to make the movie as long as he saw fit, but studios wanting a smaller budget and 90mins etc
btw, the incredible storyboards for dune are a feast if you can bits that are floating around
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Syme
"Why aren't film producers throwing money at Jodorowsky?"
Jodorowsky had some gargantuesque approach to managing film budgets. Not saying it's justified but studios at the time were likely scared of financing him. The Dune debacle was a precedent.
ilkke
My guess would be that he knows what he wants and wouldn't dance to their fiddle, plus his ideas and methods must seem super risky from a producer's perspective.
sbf501
I'm having trouble believing an AI did this. I mean, I know it did, and I trust HN to call BS. But ... it's just too perfectly imperfect. You can almost spot the cardboard headwear. I literally can't convince myself an AI did it. It's a weird feeling I'm experiencing.
roywiggins
If you look at the hands they are messed up in the way these tools always seem to mess hands up.
(that's not to take away from the rest of it, which is pretty extraordinary)
jimlikeslimes
The art cliche "hands are hard" strikes again. Lucid dreamers also describe hands not looking right in dreams, using it as a tell that they are dreaming. I've also seen my hands look like these pictures when taking LSD. With merged fingers etc.
Looking at my hands and counting 5 fingers is definitely comforting.
konfusinomicon
it's too good and if real im very impressed. these are the best AI generated images ive ever seen, they fit the theme almost too perfectly. I want to see the prompts that made something of this caliber
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Stunning. Definitely worth fixing the link for! https://www.djfood.org/fantasy-jodorowsky-tron-visualisation...