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gandalfgeek
slashdev
It's also a searing indictment of Linux. I get less than half the battery life on my Alienware AMD laptop under Linux than under Windows. I don't know what Linux is doing wrong here, but it is not energy efficient.
seabrookmx
There's a lot of Linux apologists in your replies but my experience is exactly the same _with a laptop that supports Linux_ (Framework laptop).
I'm running a very recent kernel in Fedora and have tried numerous power saving mechanisms (currently autocpufreq, although it's results are not much different from gnome PPD) and I'm lucky if I get 3 hours from the thing while running 10-15 FF tabs and a single instance of VSCode+Remote SSH extension. This is ~1/2 of what I can get in Windows.
I think a lot of Linux users would be surpised how good their battery life would be if they installed Windows on their laptops. It's not Linux's fault per se, it's just that there's considerably less engineering manpower going into tuning the power efficiency of laptop hardware on Linux. People get up in arms because they can't reconcile the fact that "Windows is bloated" with the fact that it gets better battery life, but if you think about it for a few seconds it really shouldn't surprise anyone.
mrguyorama
>It's not Linux's fault per se
It IS linux's fault, in the way that whenever someone new comes into the ecosystem and says "hey this important thing doesn't work well or is broken for me" and get accosted from all directions by crazy people who haven't touched mac or windows in 20 years who insist that what you describe isn't possible, linux is super easy to fix yourself (lol), and that ideas from computing in the 60s are unambiguously the best ideas ever made in computing.
The linux ecosystem doesn't even have a legitimate window manager. When people tell the linux world "hey there's an issue" the linux world always responds with "fuck off"
aussiesnack
I'm another f/t Fedora user. I've been using Linux on dozens of laptops for over 2 decades. Not once in my experience has Linux got the same battery life as Windows on the same machine, regardless of tweaks. I did have about 5 years on MacOS, and that was the best of all, but that was different hardware of course.
Linux just is worse on battery than any of the other mainstream OSs in my experience, though the margin has reduced over time. It's still my platform of choice (because even now, in 2022, the choices available are crap), but denial makes them disappear only from the imagination, not reality.
cbsmith
Framework's Linux support is very... DYI. I would say it's a long step away from a laptop designed for Linux (the new Chromebook offering being the exception that proves the rule).
> It's not Linux's fault per se, it's just that there's considerably less engineering manpower going into tuning the power efficiency of laptop hardware on Linux.
You're not wrong, but it's worse than that. A lot of the power management is tied in to proprietary firmware. Then there's the whole Intel Gen12 debacle...
I would argue that Chromebooks are pretty solid proof that it isn't Linux's fault, because they by and large Linux systems that get fantastic power management results.
> People get up in arms because they can't reconcile the fact that "Windows is bloated" with the fact that it gets better battery life, but if you think about it for a few seconds it really shouldn't surprise anyone.
Windows gets better battery life on laptops designed for better battery life with Windows. At the same time, it is often surprising how running a program under WINE on Linux will outperform the same program running on Windows. ;-)
trelane
I'm not convinced Framework actually supports Linux, though. AFAICT, it supports Windows and can ship with no OS, and you have to do the rest yourself. To predictable end (e.g. having to deal with kernel parameters to make it work.)
The firmware involved is also distinctly non-trivial.
linuxhansl
My experience is exactly the opposite. If that make me a "Linux apologist" I don't really care.
Install TLP, uninstall thermald, and make sure turbo mode is off (it's on by default in Linux - probably applies to Intel only).
Under light load the system is using 6-8w (about 9-10h of usage on the 80WH battery), under 4w when completely idle. This is latest Fedora on a ThinkPad X1 Extreme with KDE. I want to see that with Windows.
You have to invest a bit more time with Linux (for example the fingerprint reader on my Laptop prevented the CPU from going into lower power modes), and that part is unfortunate.
On the other hand I never experience things randomly not working like it was with Windows.
Your mileage may vary.
RosanaAnaDana
I'm very disappointed in my Framework/PopOS!
Ships with Linux, some good marketing. I think PopOS! has lost the thread on why they exist, in that it started as an 'it just works' version of linux, and it seems to be managed as yet another enthusiast grade linux. It doesn't take much time over at r/popos to see this sentiment spelled out.
I'm not leaving the linux ecosystem, but I can tell you i'd be shocked if I go with either Framework again. Majorly disappointed for what should have been a top tier system when I bought it. I'm on the fence about PopOS. I need an OS that works out of the gate and doesn't break things like audio and bluetooth down the road (both of which are borked in the current version).
Idk. Hard time to be committed to FOSS, but the options aren't better.
TylerE
Wow that’s horrible. I’ve got a 7 year old MacBook with a battery that needs servicing and I can still get nearly 3 hours out of that, and that’s running IntelliJ
slaw
Framework laptop doesn't have option to buy with Linux, there is only an option to buy without Windows. For me that is not what officall support is.
I had Motile M141 laptop with Ryzen 3200U and it had better battery life on Linux than Windows.
jchw
Does that laptop support Linux? If not, I'd expect a key reason is simple; it likely is not using all of the power saving functionality supported by the laptop. This might include things like S0ix, throttling, proper sleep states, etc. There's a lot of factors going in, and I think by and large it is not actually an endemic issue with Linux itself. Consider for example that x86 Chromebooks have no issue fully exploiting modern x86 power saving features and getting good battery life.
orangepurple
Run powertop as root and go to the analysis tab
eloff
It does not. I use some extra software to try and improve that, which helps, but it also means the laptop is noticably laggy on battery. But you're right that is likely part of the equation. I don't think it's the whole story though, I see other people complaining of wise than Windows battery life on laptops that do support Linux.
matheusmoreira
Suppose I want to reverse engineer all of my laptop's power saving features and write drivers for them or whatever it is that Linux needs to work properly. How do I begin? I managed to get as far as dumping ACPI DSDT but I couldn't figure out where to go from there.
I got all the extra USB features working. It should be possible to support everything else too. If I learn this I'll add support for all the laptops I buy in the future too.
bipson
Alienware? I suspect you have a dedicated graphics card?
Or any other "performance"-component for that matter, which typically requires proprietary software counterpart (drivers) to run efficiently. Most vendors only ship decent Windows drivers, and the Linux counterpart (if any) is considered "good enough".
I would not consider this the fault of kernel developers. Often there is basically nothing they can do. You just need to look at what hoops the Nouveau-devs have to jump through - colossal effort, little appreciation from users.
jandrese
Probably an Optimus setup on the Windows side. It basically powers down the graphics card most of the time and switches to the lighter Intel graphics instead. Linux support for Optimus is poor and usually you end up having to choose either good battery life or good gaming performance.
jeroenhd
For me it's the exact opposite: I can't get the Linux battery life on Windows without turning Windows down into a stutterfest. Windows is also noisy as hell.
It all comes down to driver support. If you manufacturer doesn't have proper drivers, your experience will suck. It says a lot about Lenovo that open source Linux drivers work better than their proprietary ones, but that probably comes with the territory if you combine Intel and Nvidia.
kccqzy
Well people are working on it. As a random example I recently stumbled upon the "lazy RCU" patch in Linux. RCU is of course the synchronization mechanism to have mutable shared data across threads where reads don't need mutexes. Did you know that Linux's answer to "how do know this shared pointer can safely be freed" is conceptually to schedule the current thread on every single CPU? That doesn't sound power efficient and it isn't.
https://lore.kernel.org/all/20220901221720.1105021-1-joel@jo...
mrb
Usually it's the fault of the Linux drivers. They don't correctly configure the various integrated peripherals to draw as little current as possible: the WiFi chip, the Bluetooth chipset, the webcam, or whatever random integrated USB peripheral you find on an average laptop.
jcims
This used to be the other way around. I worked for a laptop company (Winbook!) in the 90s and Windows 3.x and IIRC even (early) Windows 95 were largely oblivious to power management features. These laptops had no fan and the bottom of the case acted as a heatsink. (We would regularly get calls from customers complaining about damage to their tables/desks).
One thing I noticed almost immediately when running linux is that when I was just farting around learning the OS, the laptop would get stone cold. But when I did something large, like compile a kernel, while the laptop was actually on my lap I could physically feel the heat from the CPU start to leak through the case.
Matl
Is any serious money going into optimizing Linux battery life on laptops? Not that I know of. Since there's no money in Linux laptops as compared to Windows laptops, why is this surprising?
I find it much more damming that Apple smokes Windows in battery life even despite Microsoft having its own line of laptops (Surface) and having the money to pour into it vs Linux.
seanp2k2
AMD has them beat on battery life too, Intel just keeps pushing up TDP to try to get perf back even though their node size is bigger and their fab tech is behind. It looks good on paper to call this a "14-core laptop" too but really it's more like an 8-core with a 6-core co-processor.
I like this in general, but $2400 + $100 shipping for an i7-12700H / 32GB DDR5 / 2TB 980 Pro / non-OLED display is a bit high. I'm personally waiting for this Vivobook Pro 16x to drop later this year: https://www.asus.com/laptops/for-creators/vivobook/vivobook-...
- Ryzen 9 6900HX (8-core / 4.9Ghz) - RTX 3060 / 6GB GDDR6 - Choice between 4K/60 OLED or 3200x2000/120 OLED, both with >=550nits and TUV cert - 2x NVMe slots so 8TB max SSD? - 90whr battery - The current model is $1650 / free shipping on Amazon so expected pricing is the same as it replaces that model (current: M7600RE-XB99, new: M7601)
For $2400 you can get a ProArt Studiobook H5600QR-XB99 with Ryzen 9 5900HX | 64GB | 2TB | RTX 3070 or for $2200 (on sale right now) a Razer Blade 14 with 6900HX |RTX 3070 Ti| 14" QHD 165Hz | 16GB DDR5 RAM | 1TB, so those are what this is competing with, and those others come with Windows licenses too (it looks like the Vivobook MIGHT be available without an OS, but no word on what configurations offer that).
- 16" 3.2K 120 Hz OLED
noveltyaccount
Wait a couple months longer and you may be able to buy one with a Zen4 chip, on 5nm process (same as M1).
troyvit
I see it more as what's possible when you have complete control of the hardware and software stack. I'll never happily enter Apple's walled garden again but I do see the allure. You get a lot when you trade away your freedom with Apple.
0xCMP
Asahi Linux has way better battery performance than any typical x86 laptop almost entirely because of the M1 chip itself [1].
Apparently part of the genius of the chip is that they baked a large chunk of the power management logic into the chip itself.
I think Linux has work it could do to be more efficient, but really we should just be mad at Intel/AMD for not doing what Apple did years ago. They never even offered an option for those willing to sacrifice compatibility. And now they're going to start looking the entire portable electronics market (little bit hyperbole, but I don't see my self buying any new computer that isn't an M1 something for a long time especially as Asahi Linux is making such good progress and I can use Linux on whatever Apple releases in the future).
[1]: https://twitter.com/marcan42/status/1592508953933778945?s=20...
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spaniard89277
It seems that we're not getting anything close to the M1.
I'll stick to second-hand thinkpads for now, but I'd really like to have a thinkpad with some ARM resembling M1.
We had a good shot with frame.work but it seems nobody is going to make other boards nor are keyboards really replaceable with thinkpad-like keyboards, so the swappable parts concept falls very short for now.
CoolCold
I agree that X13s looks underpowered comparing to Apple's laptops, but from my understanding of reviews - it's working machine, not a proof of concept of WoA style gimmick
nextos
Qualcomm claim they are releasing a CPU that is comparable to the M1/2 lineup next year.
The X13s can run Linux fairly well right now, so it's promising.
IMHO, ARM CPUs are going to eat the low and mid-end laptop market due to their energy-saving advantage.
yamtaddle
Some of it's the software being much better. See also: Android vs. iOS battery life. Android's gotten a little better over the years (for a good long while the difference was comically huge) but it's still the case that you need higher specs and a bigger battery to achieve similar apparent responsiveness and battery life with Android. And that's despite iOS bloating pretty badly over the last half-dozen versions.
Or see what happens when you use Chrome or Firefox instead of Safari on a MacBook. One of these three vendors plainly cares a lot about battery life. The other two do not care as much.
shantara
To be fair, one of these vendors has also access to undocumented APIs that the others need to discover and reverse engineer to level the playing field:
https://hacks.mozilla.org/2022/10/improving-firefox-responsi...
Klonoar
It's not quite "reverse engineering" if you just need to read the kernel code (which Apple publishes).
It's undocumented, yes - but it's not like it wasn't there.
lucb1e
> Android's gotten a little better over the years
By breaking background services more and more with every release. By doing less, your battery lasts longer, but for what if you want to make use of that battery? (I'm an Android user because iOS is simply not an option for tinkering, but I am sour about the breakage with every version.)
binkHN
It's not just with Intel. Apple has 2 years on Qualcomm as well as their phones also have significantly smaller batteries compared to their Android counterparts.
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GreyStache
I'm typing this on my 1 year old Tuxedo InfinityBook (S 14 Gen6, not the Pro).
Now I'm definitely spoiled by the Lenovo X1 series, but I'm not happy.
The hardware is a rebrand from clevo-computer.com - some minor spare parts can be had from there.
The system is VERY prone to overheating, the fan is noisy. They claim the fan noise is "not annoying" which is only true in the short term. I have opened up the bottom shell and I believe the fan recirculates a bit of hot air back into the case. This really is a limiting factor for me, I'm considering an alternate cooling solution.
The case had a minor chip in it within the first ten minutes out of the box (I don't know how that happened, I think it just pinged off by itself!). The palm-rests are starting to show dark spots. My barrel jack power connector is loose, I have to hold it in with a rubber band. (I still have the usb-c port) All the rubber feet at the bottom fell off quite some time ago, superglued them back on. The (super compact) PSU started to whine, that was replaced under warranty - but is stated to be a consumable item!
Out of the box they have their own OS, which is a somewhat modified Ubuntu. My main driver is Debian and almost everything worked right out of the box - sometimes I got back (usb-boot) to their distro to validate things (see: support).
The firmware is more than okay for me; I managed to cross-compile their "control centre" to allow me to change performance/fan characteristics on the fly. The uefi updates work fine (boot from a stick), but they are undocumented.
The support is ... rigid. The first response is to boot their own distro and kernel. This is fair for a mass market product I guess, but I somehow hoped that specific questions would find their way proper Linux Gurus (tm).
There is a very cute penguin instead of a windows logo on the keyboard :-)
kitsunesoba
Not having owned one personally, the questionable quality of the engineering and QC of Clevo-based laptops has what has kept me away from them. Reviews for them are almost always some shade of "this is mediocre" or "this would be nice if not for X, Y, and Z".
While they still have a ways to go, I'm more hopeful for Framework since they do their own engineering, and I'm interested to see what system76 does in the self-designed laptop they're reportedly working on.
acomjean
I've owned 2. One for 4+ years the other is 3 months old. They've been fine for me and I move them around a lot. the only issue is junk getting stuck in the fan and replacement was fairly easy. The hinged chipped when it hit the floor once (the plastic surrounding the hinge part.) Spare parts are readily available. I like Mat screens and they tend to have them.
The AMD cpu model I'm using for work is really quite good on power and fast (Ryzen 7 5700u).
jay_kyburz
Put me in the category of people who will never buy Clevo again. Its Junk.
Sending a laptop back for warranty repair is a massive pain as well. I ended up just working around the broken stuff until I bought a new machine.
qudat
I have a framework and love it
GreyStache
One more nit-pick: the screen is polarised the wrong way. You can't see anything when wearing polarised sunglasses (those are always oriented so they filter out the polarisation of water puddles).
bipson
This is the case for several laptops and computer displays I can tell from experience, even those from large brands (looking at you Dell).
GreyStache
One of the things I really considered is that if nobody gives these "independent" Linux-focussed vendors a chance, then Linux-on-the-desktop will forever remain a non-factory option and a second-class citizen in support manners.
imiric
That's not the way the market works. How about vendors focus on delivering a quality product, with good hardware and software, proper QA and support, and fair prices? Hell, I'm sure many Linux users would be willing to pay a premium if all the other aspects are there.
Linux will never be a mainstream option with these low effort products.
trelane
> Hell, I'm sure many Linux users would be willing to pay a premium if all the other aspects are there.
Evidence so far indicates that they do not, when given the chance.
daneel_w
Do 10 hours of battery life "while surfing the web with Wi-Fi" really strike anyone as a strong argument these days? I'm a bit uncertain. I got 9 hours of the same out of my 2017 MacBook Air's measly battery when it was new 5 years ago. I know for a fact I don't need 14 CPU cores to get my browsing habits satisified. This laptop is trying to be a "premium business workstation" by packing a CPU that's crazy powerful for laptop standards, but with only 10 hours of battery life "while surfing the web with Wi-Fi" - due to said workstation CPU choice - it's not gonna last even 3 hours doing the workstation type of stuff they're trying to market it for. What a gadget...
smoldesu
FWIW, 10 hours of battery life with a discrete GPU enabled is fairly unprecedented. Even the 16" Macbooks that shipped with discrete GPUs would struggle to sustain the CPU and GPU for 5 hours of parallel use.
daneel_w
Why would anyone, these days, need a discrete GPU for surfing the web? This detail, too, just like the CPU, falls short on the fact that making actual use of its power cuts battery time down to nothing. They should just market it for what it really is: a workstation laptop with 3 hours of battery life.
smoldesu
They also offer a version of this laptop without the discrete GPU if you need better battery life. There are still workloads that require local discrete GPU hardware though.
eropple
Did those not have automatic graphics switching? I tapped out of Intel MBPs around 2017, but AGS made using them pretty decent for the time.
smoldesu
They did, and technically the underpinnings exist for you to do the same thing on Linux (Nvidia PRIME render offloading). Generally though, if you're a 3D creator or ML researcher I could definitely see this machine making a case for itself.
zamalek
> Configure your InfinityBook Pro 14 optionally with the NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3050 Ti and turn your lightweight business laptop into an ultra-portable gaming console!
Why are so many Linux laptops NVIDIA? It know that we have the OS kernel + blob userspace option now, but it's still early days. My desktop is AMD, my laptop is NVIDIA, and the difference is night-and-day.
I would honestly have an IGPU in a laptop over NVIDIA, but even that option seems few and far between (this specific laptop being an exception).
Gordonjcp
Because NVidia works in Linux. Intel isn't really accelerated, and AMD is buggy and doesn't do GPU compute acceleration terribly well.
olq
This is completely false. Modern Nvidia cards on linux can barely get pixels on the screen and does not have power saving modes.
Gordonjcp
I'm using an NVidia card right now for very high end video work. It works great.
Why would I want power saving modes?
nikisweeting
Also all the AI/ML/CUDA tooling is written for NVidia, AMD driver support is terrible.
_carbyau_
This alone means my 2023 computer build will have an nVidia GPU.
I know next to nothing about ML. But even I can follow basic instructions to get Stable Diffusion or Spleeter or something to play with.
Installation, configuration and speed to get ML stuff to play with is easy for nVidia users. Sucks for AMD.
Source: current AMD GPU user who dislikes nGreedia but sees no other real option.
NavinF
because they still don't officially support CUDA on consumer cards, only on the overpriced data center cards
yrral
With the proliferation of high wH usb-c power banks (for less than 100 bucks), I don't see the value in getting a computer that adds weight or bulk for battery life. Reason being by default then I get a thin and light laptop, or I can choose to extend my battery life by additionally lugging a power bank (or two) if I want.
Yes, this ad says this computer is thin, but if you compare it to a commodity ultrabook from dell/hp/apple, it looks much thicker.
fbhabbed
Good battery, good customizability, but I'm wondering:
- Who is actually producing these? Are they resellers? For whom?
- They mention TuxedoOS. Why? Can you have the same experience with a vanilla Debian or Arch?
- Customs costs. They may inflate the price quite a lot depending on where you are
taink
Their website provides good enough information I believe:
- They only mention production in Germany. Their "Why Tuxedo" page[1] does seem to imply that they are building most of it themselves.
- They mention TuxedoOS for the same reason System76 mentions Pop_OS!: because they made it. I would expect it to work with any one of the OS included in their WebFAI[2] pretty well[3], which by the way I believe is actually sent with the laptop.
- Their FAQ might shed some light here[4] depending on where you live. It's pretty much the same with any brand I know; maybe you have had a different experience?
[1] https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en/why-TUXEDO.tuxedo#tuxedo-...
[2] https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en/TUXEDO-WebFAI.tuxedo
[3] https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en/Infos/Help-Support/Freque...
[4] https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en/Infos/Help-Support/Freque...
qwytw
> They only mention production in Germany. Their "Why Tuxedo" page[1] does seem to imply that they are building most of it themselves.
AFAIK they only sell rebadged Clevo products. You should be able to get any of their laptops on https://clevo-computer.com/en/laptops-configurator/ just without the badge.
taink
I find it misleading that they do not mention it, then. Something like "Our Clevo-based laptops are assembled by us [...]" would suffice. Laptops with Linux[1] does it, why not them?
GreyStache
They use hardware from clevo-computers.com, but they select certain parts. The uefi is not the stock, so I'm assuming they do some tuning.
TuxedoOS was very limiting to me; a vanilla Debian works very well.
trelane
Interesting. I wonder of they also work closely on the firmware like system76 does.
ProAm
A lot of these questions you can google. But here you go [1]
[G] https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en/Infos/Help-Support/Freque...
justonemore3
How can they claim 16h of work - I own an Asus m16 with the same CPU and a 90Wh battery and after some tweaking my Ubuntu drains 9.xWh without touching anything ... With Firefox open it already consumes 12wH - so I guess I can be happy if I can get 6h of work done with one load and this laptop here can't do much better...
jnk345u8dfg9hjk
Yeah I think all these Linux laptops are overmarketing it
throwaway3b03
When I think of my E-Bike battery of ~400Wh that can keep going for ~100km (admittedly, with some assistance), I'm surprised this laptop can only go for 16h on that.
The energy required to move 80kg (me+bike) 25km is significant.
AtlasBarfed
Well, look at the power outputs of bikers. 100 watts can probably get you to 15mph in flats / no headwinds. so that.... well, 400 watt-hours for 60 miles!
Meanwhile, gaming rigs are coming with kilowatt power supplies now, maybe even more.
Laptops try to be more efficient, yeah, but 100 watt-hours in sixteen hours is 6.25 watts sustained.
Did I math that properly?
taink
I mean you can check with this tool[1] I discovered while wondering for myself. I gave up halfway through though.
AtlasBarfed
I'm a biker/endurance athlete to the point of completing several Iron-distance triathlons in the "happy to finish" division. So I have a general idea of 15-20mph wattage to speed.
nicolaslem
That checks out, 6W is about the power used by an average laptop. Best in class ones are about 3W.
intrasight
I don't call anything a "workstation" unless it supports ECC.
neogodless
Why in the world if you care about battery life do you put a 12th gen Intel H-series CPU in your laptop, and not a 5th or 6th gen AMD CPU?
My Lenovo gaming laptop gets 5-6 hours with a 4th gen AMD H-series on a 60Wh battery.
jnk345u8dfg9hjk
Can you elaborate why these architectures give better battery life?
neogodless
I don't think I know enough to give a great answer.
The obvious is TSMC's "7nm" and iterative 6nm enables greater efficiency over "Intel 7." Beyond that, presumably there's some IPC advantage that means more work can be done with the same clocks and power draw.
It's odd, because 12th gen is quite performant and seems efficient, and yet somehow the battery life isn't very good.
formerly_proven
Intel's 1240P and AMD's 6600U perform more or less the same at the same power.
FunnyLookinHat
I'm not sure about the AMD option, but I can speak to the Intel trade-offs. H-Series CPUs are designed to be the "laptop workhorse" at a TDP of about 47W - whereas most laptops built for battery life nowadays use U-Series CPUs with a TDP of 15-17W depending on the generation.
calvinmorrison
My lenovo X220 has the most insane battery life I have ever had.
I had the 9 Cell battery (compared to the 3 cell) with the additional backpack chassis battery that clipped on below.
Just by itself the 9 cell was good for close to 10 hours.
Extended battery was: 64.38Wh and the extended 9 cell was 94Wh.
About a decade down the road, I still have about 50% battery life left in it at max charge and it still holds its own on an all day outing
zelphirkalt
I have an X200 with a 9 cell battery, bought new a while ago, but I think 4h max is what I get, if I lower brightness and only run Emacs or so. How do you manage to run 10h? Does the X220 somehow use less?
calvinmorrison
Probably not a new oem battery? The OEM 9 Cell was really good. Also - definitely need to tune it down with powertop, you can suspend most of the stuff like usb only the fly, also using and ssd over hdd.
Though, to be fair, this one had an HDD originally and has an "HDAPS" system. It's a built in gyroscope that will park the head of the disk if it notices the laptop is in free fall. how silly and fantastic that is
smoldesu
My x201 got ~6 hours of ontime with a new 6-cell battery, so I can believe a x220 hitting 10 hours on 9-cell.
pengaru
Penryn->Sandy Bridge is a pretty big leap.
wooptoo
There's also the Starlabs Starfighter which is somewhat similar: https://starlabs.systems/pages/starfighter
Klonoar
Starlabs is the only alternative manufacturer that actually seems to make their own chassis, which in my opinion makes it the only thing comparable to a MacBook. No Clevo shell will come close.
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Isn't it a searing indictment of the entire Intel laptop chip lineup that a MacBook Air M1 has half the battery capacity (50Wh) while giving easily twice the battery life with as good or better performance -- and with no fans!