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sgtnoodle
Firmware updates may resolve HDMI compatibilities, though, and in my mind it's always worth the risk even if there's a 10% chance of improvement because HDMI reliability is terrible.
When I mounted my TV, I embedded a single HDMI cable, a single cat5e cable, and a single optical cable in the wall. Conduit wasn't an option due to the age and construction of the wall, so changing it would require power tools and drywall mud.
I have a sound bar rather than a receiver because it makes my wife happy. The sound bar works best with ARC. Optical works too, but power and volume isn't synchronized.
I have an NVIDIA shield mounted behind the TV because the TV's software stack got too lethargic, and the TV's built-in decoder has silicon bugs that break video in Netflix, and break surround sound in everything but Netflix.
Surprisingly, everything works reliably about 95% of the time. It's unfortunate that I consider that a win. I just added a 4-1 HDMI splitter with ARC passthrough in order to get a Blu-ray player back in the mix, and it was boring!
warble
Wow, never once ever had an issue with HDMI, although I only go 4K at most. I never even considered it a possibility.
owenwil
I wish I was in your shoes! I also had no issues with HDMI until recent years--but HDMI-eARC is so buggy on Samsung TVs, especially when being used with surround sound or a sound bar. I had no problems before I moved to a surround system/beyond ARC, but with eARC I need to reboot the TV at the wall once every two weeks or it will "forget" it's plugged into a sound system, it's very annoying. It was far worse when I first got the TV and updates have improved it somewhat, but it's still very annoying. I don't hold out hope for Samsung updating the TV for much longer, my last one from them they abandoned it after the first year. :/
sgtnoodle
Sure, the "DVI" subset of HDMI generally works everywhere, although I've had signal integrity issues from cheap cables in the past.
It's all the other stuff that's supposed to seamlessly integrate your components. Audio Return Channel so sound makes it to the speakers regardless of where a source is plugged in, Consumer Electronics Control so you can use one Bluetooth remote for everything, automatic power synchronization, etc.
Even 4k is a little weird, with different HDMI versions supporting different frame rates. I have a Yamaha receiver from 2014 or so that doesn't support 4k, but claims to "support" it; all you have to do is turn off the receiver and it will pass the signal through!
sgtnoodle
This thread has motivated me to try and tackle my current audio drop out problem. Every 5-10 minutes, the audio drops out for a second. I'm currently updating the firmware on my soundbar as a shot in the dark...
OJFord
But if you're not experiencing a problem with it..?
Fair enough if you have a compatibility bug it might fix maybe it's worth a shot, but until/unless that happens it's not that compelling is it?
shaboinkin
I learned this with my router. I updated the firmware thinking it was the smart thing to do, security fixed and all that, but instead I was greeted with ads for their other products and them wanted to shove their stupid phone app in my face to interact with the router. I then installed OpenWRT and said nuts to using proprietary router firmware.
tpxl
> perhaps in the near future we'll have public wifi or free Google community wifi, and the new firmware will have the smarts to use that and bypass your wifi.
Xfinity WiFi has been around for at least 8 years. Amazon sidewalk has been around for over a year. Wanna bet those are or will be used by your smart TV producers to connect them to the internet via wifi?
tenebrisalietum
What makes me think this will never happen is that
- Open Wi-Fi networks are a thing of the past. There hasn't been any around me in a residential area for a long time now. Businesses and workplace lobbies, more likely, though.
- No one is going to just give Samsung free Internet except the hapless consumer by supplying Wi-Fi credentials.
- Samsung might make a deal with providers, but it would have to have unique credentials embedded in its OS and firmware, and I doubt Samsung has the ability to keep that totally secure.
Think about it. If you could get free, anonymous Internet with credentials in a Samsung TV, crackers would be all over that - they'd be searching every crook and nanny for exploits, desoldering NAND and sniffing busses for encryption keys, connecting with Chinese friends to get original datasheets, etc.
Even if Samsung embedded an LTE/5G SIM, eSIM, whatever, it would be hacked to bits. "Get model X of samsung TV, get free Internet with this Linux application". It's not realistic for there to be a network connection that you don't know about, pay for, and have your name attached to.
Of course the p2p network interface that shows up on the Netflix diagnostic screen is concerning, though.
Now if cellular providers start selling TVs, such as AT&T, Verizon, etc. bundling Internet with them, then it can happen.
nwiswell
> No one is going to just give Samsung free Internet except the hapless consumer by supplying Wi-Fi credentials.
I think it's implied that Samsung would pay Amazon for Sidewalk access.
> Samsung might make a deal with providers, but it would have to have unique credentials embedded in its OS and firmware, and I doubt Samsung has the ability to keep that totally secure.
I don't think this is as hard a problem as you're making it sound. Each TV ships with a serial number, let's suppose; it tries to handshake with the Sidewalk network. Sidewalk phones home to Amazon, Amazon talks to Samsung, Samsung says "yes, we sold that S/N recently and it has never connected before, here's its public key".
bhelkey
Every TV ships with a unique secret key. Secret keys that are used to do anything other than connect to an Ads server are disabled.
reaperducer
Open Wi-Fi networks are a thing of the past.
I've been to two medical facilities and a large regional hospital in the last week where there were open wifi networks with no portals. My apartment building operates an open wifi network for guests so we don't have to bother giving out passwords to visitors. An airport I visited last month has wide open wifi. A see ads on transit buses all the time stating that the bus has wifi. I suspect that is wide open because the transit agency didn't want to deal with tech support.
Open wifi is far from a thing of the past.
jedberg
> Even if Samsung embedded an LTE/5G SIM, eSIM, whatever, it would be hacked to bits. "Get model X of samsung TV, get free Internet with this Linux application". It's not realistic for there to be a network connection that you don't know about, pay for, and have your name attached to.
Kindles and cars have had those for years and people haven't torn those apart to come up with free internet.
michaelmrose
Your connection could be limited to receiving ads and firmware updates, incredibly slow,and be limited to a key stored in hardware both near impossible to retrieve and nearly worthless if you retrieved it. This connection would only be used if a primary connection was unavailable.
You could basically use 10MB per 10 customers per year and the only question is do you make more ensuring everyone gets ads to justify the peanuts paid to people like comcast or at worst the cost of a chip that has a cellular modem vs just wifi.
egberts1
Open WiFi are prevalent throughout our neighborhoods.
The SSID name starts with “Xfinity”.
derefr
The problem is that we're at a point in the evolution of TVs where robust support for HDMI-CEC (especially in combination with ARC/eARC) isn't guaranteed; but might be something you can get later through a firmware update.
When you finally decide to shell out for a sound bar, and after hooking it up, your TV now suddenly takes 30 seconds to flicker to life from sleep, you'll really want that firmware update.
(It's similar to where we were ~5 years ago with motherboards and NVMe boot support. The motherboard had the M.2 socket; but whether the NVMe device showed up in the boot options was up to chance. Often it'd only work in legacy mode but not UEFI mode. But, after a few-months-later motherboard firmware update, things would begin to work the way you'd expect.)
asdfk-12
This is good advice. I kept my 4k Vizio offline until updating the firmware on a whim. The update broke the ability to run 1080p@60hz from my PC, making it effectively useless for normal use. The annoying part about the panel is that it was advertised as 4k but only works at 30hz at that resolution. Cheap, so should have figured.
WhyNotHugo
Not a TV, but my monitor is 3440x1440. However, it only supports 30Hz at that resolution over HDMI since it has an older HDMI version. It only supports 3440x1400 at 60Hz over DisplayPort.
So, if your TV has any other inputs, might want to try those too.
p1necone
It might be supported but non obvious, some TVs only support 4k60 through one of the HDMI ports.
It could also be a cable issue, although I believe the option usually shows up on cables that dont support it and only fails once you try to switch.
asdfk-12
New cable, tried both ports. The update was the only x-factor.
staticman2
I'd check reddit and avsforum.com to see if anyone has encountered that issue with your model and come up with a fix.
thirdsun
I find that hard to believe. This is most likely an issue with your GPU or cable/port used.
smt88
> The sentiment here on HN is to never connect the TV to the Internet
Appallingly, this isn't enough to stop the ads. Many TVs will proactively scan for open networks and connect to them.
midasuni
Do you have links to blogs that show this happening, I see plenty of hearsay, but I know my LG doesn’t attempt to my honeypot wifi, I’d love to see proof.
hedora
Samsung (Dacor) discloses this behavior in their fridge manual; it says it will mesh with Samsung TVs to better target ads.
I’m not about to buy a Samsung set to find out what it actually does in practice. The fridge has deep learning object classifiers and internal cameras; I assume that is a big part of its ad targeting capability.
Note that the fridge has demand response / energy use time shifting features that don’t work unless it is connected to the internet.
gw99
You can crack the things open and unplug the wireless module usually.
If the TV stops working then, well you solved the problem anyway :)
worldofmatthew
Could that not get their owner arrested for stealing WI-FI?
digitallyfree
Maybe not straight up arrested, but I think I recall a case in the past where legal action was taken over someone using a restaurant's free WiFi everyday while not being a customer (he used it in his car in the parking lot). Like the network is open but technically you need permission to connect to it (a sign at the airport saying that free WiFi is available at this SSID, or the restaurant stating that WiFi is available to all paying customers counts as permission). Obviously very few of these cases will be prosecuted, but I would be very concerned if my smart devices were connecting to open networks automatically without my consent.
fsckboy
i don't think they look for open wifi, they look for a mesh network they're part of and you've all already a agreed to be part of
vonseel
Are the cops generally investigating Wi-Fi theft in your area?
challenger-derp
So far, my experience with Samsung products is that they're really badly put together in my experience. In the past, I've had multiple Samsung Note Smartphones (changed every 2-3 years because they would stop functioning), two Samsung smart TVs (latest one that's still in use is one whose wifi module stopped functioning after a firmware update), and a Samsung 27-inch monitor (unstable connectivity to computer).
All the Samsung products were poor experiences one way or another.
I've replaced my last Samsung Note with an (my first) iPhone (that has lasted 6-7 years since and is still going!); and replaced the monitor with a Dell one (none of my current or previous Dell & Philips monitors ever gave issues!).
Hearing how some Samsung TVs now comes with ads feels like a new low for the user experience. I'm personally avoiding Samsung products until things change.
clouddrover
> The sentiment here on HN is to never connect the TV to the Internet
Once 5G is cheap enough the TVs will come with built-in 5G in order to always be connected.
cpeterso
Or a mesh network of TVs. Your TV might not be connected to the internet, but your neighbor’s neighbor’s neighbor’s TV might be!
mikestew
Just give me my Netflix, Disney+, Amazon Prime, HBO Max,...
All of which are available on an AppleTV, and I assume other less-intrusive devices. TFA comes to that conclusion in the last paragraph, but just in case anyone didn't make it that far. And then, as everyone on this page is going to say, never let that TV anywhere near a network connection. Why anyone would go to the effort of dicking with a pi-hole cat-and-mouse game is beyond me. Plug in a box, remove network access to the TV, watch your shows.
...even if it duplicates all the streaming app functionality in the TV itself.
I don't know, Samsung's fuckery aside, does anyone seriously think that using the duplicate app on the Samsung is going to be anywhere nearly as pleasant a UX as the AppleTV? IOW, use the AppleTV (or Roku, or whatever) regardless just for the better experience.
autoexec
> IOW, use the AppleTV (or Roku, or whatever) regardless just for the better experience.
I've never used AppleTV. Does it come with ads and a bunch of data collection too? Roku collects massive amounts of data and has ads. For example:
"Roughly twice per second, a Roku TV captures video “snapshots” in 4K resolution. These snapshots are scanned through a database of content and ads, which allows the exposure to be matched to what is airing. For example, if a streamer is watching an NFL football game and sees an ad for a hard seltzer, Roku’s ACR will know that the ad has appeared on the TV being watched at that time. In this way, the content on screen is automatically recognized, as the technology’s name indicates. The data then is paired with user profile data to link the account watching with the content they’re watching." (https://advertising.roku.com/resources/blog/insights-analysi...)
cstejerean
I only exclusively use AppleTV and have for a number of years. No ads, and you're asked whether you want to share data for analytics on setup (like any apple device).
I'm not aware of any intrusive data collection like screenshots you mention even if you do opt in to share data.
NaturalPhallacy
>Does it come with ads and a bunch of data collection too?
Even with AppleTV+ it contains ads for other content on other services that you have to pay for. You might be able to buy it through AppleTV and watch it there I guess. I don't know I've never tried.
thewebcount
Sort of. First, you can turn off a bunch of auto-play previews and the fact that it shows you stuff you haven't added to your "Up Next" list via the System Prefs. I have done this successfully and I no longer get any animated previews of videos I'm not interested in.
The AppleTV app (which you don't need to use) itself shows what shows you're watching and if you scroll down or across the categories at the top shows you what shows are on all channels it knows about. That's significantly less problematic than showing ads for arbitrary products. It does know what you've watched because it does stuff like launching the apps for you, and I wouldn't be surprised if they use that data internally. I've never seen an outright ad on my AppleTV other than when watching videos on an app that has ads (YouTube, for example).
I have found the ability to see all shows on all channels at once very useful for deciding if I want another service or not. I also sometimes see a show is available on service X, decide I don't want that service, and check to see if I can buy or rent just that one show (or movie) on iTunes. The answer is yes as often as not. Very handy!
alistairSH
The main menu/home page does not serve ads. It just lists your installed apps.
Using the Apple TV app (which aggregates listings from most services, Netflix being the notable exception) will list shows on services you might not already pay for. But, you don’t have to use the Apple TV app - you can just go straight to the apps you know you want.
Melatonic
NextDNS is blocking a CRAP ton of Roku tracking for me. Very successfully. And I never get a single advertisement either!
mattmanser
One remote is inherently better than two remotes. It's objectively less hassle.
The apps are actually mostly identical from experience.
I actually use a PS4 at the moment, and it occasionally forces me to update before I can use the TV app, so even more hassle.
jiggawatts
> The apps are actually mostly identical from experience.
What's bizarre is that the YouTube app on a Google Android TV is markedly worse than YouTube on the Apple TV. For example, switching Google accounts doesn't work properly and takes more clicks even when it works!
Similarly, subtitles in several apps in Google Android TV have eye-searing maximum HDR white brightness, and this cannot be altered. The NetFlix app for example has this issue. On Apple TV the NetFlix app subtitles use a normal level of brightness.
The Google TV UI is 1080p upscaled to 4K so it is blurry. It's also so dark that it is difficult to see during the daytime. This cannot be adjusted. The Apple TV interface in comparison is gorgeous.
My impression is that Google doesn't have a single employee in their entire organisation that cares about product quality or consumer needs in any sense. They just want to control televisions to shove their ads down your throat. They have no business interest in anything else. The second they achieved control and could start selling ads, the mission was accomplished. The rest doesn't matter.
Expecting anything else at this point is a lot like a battered wife saying "deep down he loves me".
TMWNN
>What's bizarre is that the YouTube app on a Google Android TV is markedly worse than YouTube on the Apple TV.
It's a longstanding thing with Google that its iOS apps are better than its Android apps. Google Voice for iOS, for example, got certain functionality years before Android did.
petesergeant
> One remote is inherently better than two remotes. It's objectively less hassle.
My Apple TV can turn my TV on and off though, so I rarely need to use the TV remote
etempleton
I also just use the Apple TV remote for my tv and it works fine to turn the tv on and off and to adjust the volume, so I never have to touch the TV remote. However, even if I did want to do something like change inputs often I could exclusively use the TV remote and it also works just fine to control the Apple TV.
Mileage may vary. My tv is older but does seem to have good CEC support and the newest Apple TV supports CEC.
Some devices do not support CEC and it seems others only partially support CEC so when that happens one thing, like the power on and off command, doesn’t work and you end up having to use a second remote anyway, which defeats the whole point.
dangus
On top of that, people who used the old Apple TV remote with the touchpad might not even realize that there's a new one that fixes all the bad design issues of the old one.
domy
I have an AppleTV connected to my Samsung TV, and almost never use the Samsung remote. The AppleTV remote's on/off button switches everything together (through CEC I believe) so in everyday usage I only ever need a single remote.
antihero
Yep, I only ever use the LG remote for turning off the display when I want to listen to music with a blank screen.
gffrd
Unless, of course, the one remote is garbage, and the hassle of working the system with one remote is greater than with two.
Terretta
What's the second remote for? ATV remote drives everything.
Even if you have, say, an PS5 or Xbox Series X plugged to same TV, the ATV remote screen button causes TV to take over from console and turning on a console controller causes it to take over from ATV.
Assuming you turned on all the CEC stuff anyway.
paxys
I exclusively use my Fire Stick remote. Don't even know where the original TV one is.
ceejayoz
At some point, I fully expect the TVs are going to refuse to work after a month of no internet.
mikestew
At which point I'm personally content to go read a book (on my network-connected Amazon Kindle, of course). But I'm one of dozens, unfortunately for the rest of you because Samsung won't care about cranky old men and their books, they don't spend money anyway.
nevi-me
We have a 45" from ~2013, I used to connect it to the internet in the early days when I didn't have a Chromecast. The UI is underwhelming, and the only times I've used the smart TV features was when a streaming device wasn't working.
I've gone through 4 streaming devices, and I think that even if I get a new TV, I'm likely to continue with streaming devices, unless that TV runs stock Android TV. Even then, it'll reach a point where the firmware is no longer updated.
gw99
Yeah good luck with that. I did the same. Then all the streaming devices stopped working suddenly. Turns out that there was suddenly an HDCP compatibility issue which obsoleted the TV instantly.
tssva
", does anyone seriously think that using the duplicate app on the Samsung is going to be anywhere nearly as pleasant a UX as the AppleTV?"
I in general think the Apple UX experience is pretty awful across all their products with Apple TV being the worse of all. I have used the Samsung interface and it is bad but I still dislike the Apple TV more.
rewtraw
I can't really imagine what you believe is so bad about the Apple TV UX. It's a basic grid of available apps and videos, with an easy swipe to access video settings (subtitles, language, etc). Not complicated at all.
Most streaming boxes have the same basic interface... my usual issue is when one is laggy (e.g. TV built-in, Roku, Chromecast, etc). The Apple TV is buttery smooth, fast to scrub through videos, and never feels limited by its CPU.
tssva
It suffers from the same issue as all Apple devices, a lack of discoverability. It is even worse on the Apple TV given the lack of buttons on the remote.
I much prefer my Roku TVs and don't have any issue with lag which bothers me.
deamanto
I like Apple TV. The one thing that consistently frustrates me is pressing the mic button at the wrong "screen" will take you out of your current app and bring you to the Apple TV+ search container. Yes, it's not hard to navigate back to where you were but it's quite simple to accidentally press the mic button at the wrong screen.
OneLeggedCat
As you can see from the other replies, you are wrong to not love the locked-down Apple way of doing things from the bottom of your heart. Science has proven that people who are given options are less happy than those who never had options to begin with.
I too am in the wrong group, like you. I was finally talked into becoming an owner of an Apple device for the first time in my life about a year ago (an iPhone), and I have hated its interface with increasing passion every day since. I hate getting rid of electronics before the natural end of their lives, because I'm cheap and I'm environmental and I'm obstinate, but I may actually do it in this case.
But anyway it is all right, everything is all right, the struggle is nearly finished.
That feeling of absolute helplessness when trying to deal with any issue on your Apple device, you must embrace. It is by design. Your helpless feeling will some day be transformed into a warm feeling of being nannied, which will eventually feel maternal, and that will eventually become love.
We will win the victory over ourselves, and we will love Big Brother Apple.
pb7
You're probably in the minority with that opinion. Apple UX is wildly renowned for being great and Apple TV is no worse than any of the competitors. The TV input interface is just awkward in general but being able to use an iPhone to automatically fill in passwords, authenticate purchases, or just use as a second remote is smooth as butter. It's another example of how Apple products are better together within the ecosystem. But even if you don't have an iPhone, the newest remote is extremely good. One of the best products they've made in recent years.
tssva
The Apple UX on all devices lacks discoverability which annoys me to no end.
I can use my phone to fill in passwords and as a second remote on my Roku TV without needing to be locked in to the eco system of a single vendor. Haven't used the current remote but the previous one was an atrocity.
bitL
My Apple TV is happily showing me ads when watching Amazon Prime Video. So it's up to the app anyway - if Amazon wants to bundle LOTR:ROP with ads, they will do it on any box/platform.
samtheDamned
This post is more about ads in the ui itself, on top of the individual apps where they already pay more to avoid ads
aaronbrethorst
Why anyone would go to the effort of dicking with a pi-hole cat-and-mouse game is beyond me
Fun way to pass the time for some folks, I assume.
cassianoleal
Also the cat-and-mouse mostly happens at the block list level. I just set it up once and my LG TV never shows any ads.
jmcphers
I own this exact model -- the QN90A, though in a smaller size -- and have had exactly the same experience.
The most maddening advertisement is the one that is forcibly inserted in the menu between the apps and the settings. Using the remote, you must literally click past an ad to switch inputs.
You ... must ... click ... past ... an ... ad ... to ... switch ... inputs. Every time.
Unbelievable for a TV that costs this much. I almost returned it, but as the author notes, the alternatives have worse picture quality and often aren't any better in the ad department.
cgrealy
Get an LG. Picture quality is just as good, and bugger all ads.
I will never buy anything from Samsung ever again.
cassianoleal
Likewise. I used to mostly buy Samsung. My latest TV was an LG OLED. Not only I find webOS infinitely more usable than anything I've seen on Samsung TVs, but the image quality is excellent and even the built-in speakers are acceptable after I disabled the crappy AI-assisted stuff that makes it all sound like it's reverberating in a dumpster.
cgrealy
I'm honestly a bit surprised whenever I hear someone talk about the speakers on a TV.
Surely most people (especially for anyone who is dropping decent money on an OLED) are running external speakers?
Graziano_M
LG OLED has better picture quality IMO. I will not go back to a non-OLED.
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jason-phillips
If only they could get access to the real estate inside your eyelids, just imagine the possibilities!
OneLeggedCat
There was a Black Mirror episode that almost went this far.
falcolas
Corporate slogan of the 21st century: Why settle for some of your customer's money when you can get all of your customer's money (and monetize their data too)?
Microtransactions, ads, selling customer usage data, up-front costs, PPV, subscriptions... I'm shocked we as customers can actually afford to obtain and use any of these devices anymore.
BiteCode_dev
You gotta get this unlimited growth somewhere. Remember HN comments tell you it's not a zero sum game, you can innovate!
walrus01
this is what happens when you let MBAs run amok
manuelabeledo
Can't wait for business schools to discover that concepts like "consumer loyalty" and "user experience" are quite intermingled.
tremon
The vaccine against consumer loyalty is supply-chain monopoly. You'll never have to worry about it again.
Tenoke
A lot of things are sold cheaper than they would be otherwise (including at a loss) because they can make part of the money through ads/add-ons instead. It's customers who have shown they prefer those cheaper on the face of it options rather than those with much bigger up-front cost (which still exist but have been mostly left to business products since only there are enough of their customers fine with it).
RajT88
Yep, this I think is implicit in the author's frustration. He didn't buy the cheapest possible TV, he bought something near the top of the range. Premium customers deserve premium treatment.
I would wager the story is the same for the absolute most expensive TV's as well.
What I haven't seen here in this thread yet is the usual suggestion of looking into "Digital Signage" displays, which in addition to being "dumb", some of them come with a place to chunk in an RPI board!
jakub_g
Premium customers are premium ad targets.
marcosdumay
I doubt this.
Even more because the cheaper products have less lucrative users, and are way less likely to include ads than the most expensive ones.
titzer
> are sold cheaper than they would be otherwise
They are absolutely not selling $3k TVs at a loss.
hakfoo
This would be much more interesting if they had to quantify it.
When Amazon sold the "ad-supported" Kindle, with a corresponding full-price unit, it made a pretty direct statement of the lifetime value they expected out of advertising.
I suspect both consumers and investors would be fascinated to know how much value the manufacturer expects to get out of these post-sale bleeds. Would their investors be comfortable with a firm that's willing to compromise their brand equity on halo-tier products to extract an expected $35 lifetime ad revenue on a $3000 set?
tarakat
> It's customers who have shown they prefer those cheaper on the face of it options rather than those with much bigger up-front cost
I question the "much" - I'm sure the price difference isn't as big as those who are spying on us would have us believe (and coincidentally they are also keeping their costs secret).
But more importantly, how can you attribute this to "preference", when the hypothetical price difference is front and center, while the ads and spying are hidden, and there is not an equivalent TV without the ads and spying being sold next to the ad-infested one at an unsubsidized price?
jason-phillips
I worked for Samsung for ten years and will never buy a Samsung product. It's pretty simple, their product support is shit. I will defend the people I worked with in Semiconductor to my dying breath but nope out on the consumer products like they're lava.
Their UI/UX is also pretty atrocious across the board, so I can imagine what their TVs are like.
I have a big 2022 Sony Bravia smart TV and while there are some suggestions on the home page, I would not call them intrusive at all.
walterbell
https://github.com/RootMyTV/RootMyTV.github.io
> RootMyTV is a user-friendly exploit for rooting/jailbreaking LG webOS smart TV. It bootstraps the installation of the webOS Homebrew Channel ... At the time of writing (RootMyTV v2 - 2022-01-05), all webOS versions between 4.x and 6.2+ we tested (TVs released between early-2018 and late-2021) are supported by the new exploit chain.
Graziano_M
I had been deferring my firmware update for MONTHS and then I had some girl over and she just clicked "OK" and now I am pretty sure I can't jailbreak.
preisschild
I was so happy with this until I updated my firmware because I had a weird issue with Dolby Vision content. Unfortunately this doesn't work with the latest firmware.
solarkraft
I haven't yet seen something like this for Tizen, it would be nice.
squarefoot
The closest thing that comes to mind is SamyGo.
Never tried it though; my old dumb 42" LG has no intention to retire.
noxer
Some years ago I sold my TV because of its annoying UI and ads. I use a large PC monitor instead to watch stuff. Went back to pirating everything so I dont have to worry about whatever DRM garbage comes next or ads or streaming subscriptions etc. Zero regret. I waste way less time consuming media in general. I watch more youtube (with ad block and sponsor block ofc) and I go more to the cinema (expensive but I enjoy it way more than a streaming subscription). I buy merchandise form stuff I like and I go to concerts if possible and that's it.
fxtentacle
... plus they typically spy on you.
Like the TV will take a screenshot of what video you're watching via HDMI and upload that for content ID. Or it'll turn on the microphone to listen in on what you say.
Samsung calls that shit "Viewing Information Services". I guess because it informs their headquarters of what you are viewing.
gw99
I left my Tizen based Samsung with my ex wife when we got divorced. This was a subtle troll because I am finally free of the fucking thing and she's not.
The last decade of ownership has been hell. Slow laggy equipment, HDCP problems, working but forcibly obsoleted hardware, bugs galore and ads stuffed in your face.
I now no longer own a television and will never own one again.
Waterluvian
Nobody deserves that, you awful awful person. ;)
gw99
Oh she deserved it. And the HP windows 10 laptop with 64Gb eMMC storage.
sireat
To make things worse that laptop probably has a mobile Celeron CPU - the Atom based ones are practically unusable for desktop.
NaturalPhallacy
Calm down now, Satan.
Waterluvian
God it’s like the LaCroix of laptops.
Memories of Memories of Laptop.
walrus01
never, ever give a TV an internet connection, wifi password or dhcp lease.
I realize there are ads on the homescreen of an xbox series x, ps4 pro, ps5, etc but I would much rather deal with those than whatever shoddy operating system TV manufacturers put on their thing.
I have a thousand times more confidence that microsoft and sony will keep their OSes patched and up to date (they have a strong financial/self-interest incentive to do so, for anti piracy reasons) than the junk running on a TV.
OrangeMonkey
Bought a samsung and a roku tv. I don't know which one it was - but, for one of them, I refused to install internet. And it had a red light that flashed like every 30-60 seconds. I looked up why? "Its the no internet" light and it couldnt be disabled.
I had to cover it up with a sticky note on my nice tv until I finally gave up.
Anti consumer patterns.
Domenic_S
Get a roll of gaff tape, I block out a great deal of blinkenlights that way, it's great stuff.
Alex3917
> never, ever give a TV an internet connection, wifi password or dhcp lease.
The problem is that it’s becoming unavoidable. Right now the only oven with a good Consumer Reports rating requires a Wi-Fi connection, so it’s either get that model or another one with a significantly worse rating.
walrus01
I will build a fire pit with cinder blocks in my back yard and roast hunks of meat using a sharpened stick before I put my oven on a wifi network.
InitialLastName
Or find a reviewer who values the same things you do?
I have to think there's an acceptable oven on the market that doesn't have a Wi-Fi requirement. I bought a GE Adora oven a few years ago and it has been exactly as perfectly uncomplicated an oven as I've ever wanted; it was even easy to replace the handle when I broke it off in a moment of poor judgement. It looks like those are still available, and don't require any Wi-Fi access.
cbozeman
> Right now the only oven with a good Consumer Reports rating requires a Wi-Fi connection, so it’s either get that model or another one with a significantly worse rating.
I guarantee you Wolf, Sub-Zero, and Viking do not require Wi-Fi connections.
Alex3917
> Wolf, Sub-Zero, and Viking
Sure, but they get worse reviews, and I can get 8 years of insurance on the appliance to cover if it gets hacked for less than the cost difference.
account-5
What for? Genuine question, what reason does an oven need an internet connection for?
If I bought an oven and it required an internet connection I'd be getting my money back.
127
In order for the company to extract more money out of you, of course.
solraph
> Right now the only oven with a good Consumer Reports rating requires a Wi-Fi connection
Is this some weird American only thing? I keep hearing on HN how everything requires wifi now, but in Australia, I couldn't find any major oven that had wifi at all, and only 14 out of 504 fridges on a popular appliances site (Appliances Online) had wifi at all.
I'd be interested to know what the options look like in other countries.
Schroedingersat
Then the consumer reports rating is obviously wrong.
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Melatonic
Or buy a commercial oven. Or used
kingrazor
One thing I hate is when things like input switching are part of the TV OS. It can turn something that should be fast and easy into something slow and glitchy.
Domenic_S
I want to skywrite this comment above Samsung's offices for a year.
I bought their brand-new-tech Quantum Dot OLED. I LOVE the screen, it's outperformed my every expectation... EXCEPT... switching inputs is a nightmare! How is that possible?!?! I still have no idea how to get to an input select screen. I use my Harmony remote to direct-select an input (impossible with the stock remote) or wait for the TV to say, "no signal, choose another input"
I'm completely flabbergasted at how ridiculous it is to do.
cassianoleal
> things like input switching are part of the TV OS
As opposed to what?
On my LG there's a button for input switching that does only that. It's part of the OS but I don't see how it could be more convenient.
kingrazor
Something like input switching should operate below the OS.
Kerrick
On the contrary, I absolutely love the WebOS that came on my TV, and I use it (connected to the internet) regularly. I've often found myself watching YouTube and even browsing NPR and HN (using a TV remote as the only input device) on the TV rather than using my laptop, desktop, or even my iPhone. It's also open source [0] and you can develop your own software for it [1] without needing to submit that software to their app store [2] (though you can do that too [3]).
[1]: https://webostv.developer.lge.com
[2]: https://webostv.developer.lge.com/develop/getting-started/de...
[3]: https://webostv.developer.lge.com/distribute/app-approval-pr...
RajT88
I'll be shopping for a new big TV in the near future, and I am an HP TouchPad owner as well.
How difficult has nerfing the ads been on a WebOS TV? That is the only thing keeping me away from an LG -- I want a TV which I don't have to fight.
callahad
I bought an LG C2 earlier this year. The ads are impossible to remove, but sufficiently avoidable that I do not regret the purchase.
There is an option to run as a dumb panel, but I haven't tried using it that way.
Setting the TV up normally requires accepting a disconcerting number of EULAs. You can choose to decline some individual terms at the cost of disabling features like voice recognition, but others are required.
The TV's home screen is rife with advertisements, mainly in the form of pre-loaded apps and mandatory content sections like "Top Picks for You" or "Sports Alert." The Verge has screenshots at https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/11/22223767/lg-webos-6-tv-so.... These cannot all be hidden or moved below the fold.
The home screen ads really bothered me when I first unboxed the TV. It was new, and I wanted to explore everything it could do. Once the novelty wore off and I stopped giving a damn about the smart features, it stopped being a problem. For example: you never have to see the home screen. If you're not hooked up to cable or an antenna, the TV boots into a screensaver (a Rothko-esque slideshow by default) from which you can summon an app switcher and jump directly to Netflix / YouTube / etc. This skips the home screen altogether, so you never see those ads. System menus are free from ads to the best of my recollection.
I remain vaguely concerned about background data collection and telemetry.
Kerrick
Most (all?) of the ads can be disabled in the settings. The built-in web browser even includes ad-blocking and cookie blocking options.
General -> AI Service -> AI Recommendation: turn off "Who.Where.What?" and "Content Recommendations" and "Network-Based Personalization Recommendations"
General -> Home Settings: turn off "Home Promotion"
General -> Additional Settings: turn off "Live Plus" and turn on "Do Not Sell My Personal InformationA
General -> Additional Settings -> Advertisement: turn on "Limit AD Tracking"
cgrealy
I have an LG TV with WebOS. It's connected to the internet and I use it to watch Netflix, Prime, etc.
There's a "recommended" strip on the home page that shows various movies/tv shows from streaming services, and that's pretty much it as far as ads go.
wollsmoth
My vizio runs so much better without a connection. It used to semi-regularly get into a state where the screen was blank even though the tv was on. Because it was a smart tv, powering it off wouldn't actually power cycle it. I had to pull the power cord to reset it.
Now I use a chromecast plugged into it for streaming. before that I used a ps4.
PreachSoup
My previous Vizio tv botched chroma functionality for pc monitor for 2 years before getting it fixed. It doesn't allow downgrade. Never connect to wifi again.
jrib
my parents' TCL TV would blink a white light at the bottom of the front bezel unless we gave it access to the wifi... :(
etrautmann
Time for electrical tape or desoldering an LED…
odysseus
If you use electrical tape, the remote can no longer change the volume on the TV. Or maybe I need to trim my electrical tape a bit ..
happimess
Nail polish is very handy for this sort of thing.
rewgs
I assume connecting it to an adhoc network that doesn’t have internet access wouldn’t work?
genewitch
My TCL will blink that if the WAP is up but the internet is down, but it takes a while for it to start blinking. I just put the TV on the slowest network i have, and i rarely use the TV anyhow. 90% of media consumption is on a 4K PC monitor, and 9.5% of the remaining is on a 720p projector. I wish that 1080p or 2k projectors were cheaper, but at ~$350-$500 a 720p projector is a really hard price/feature point to beat.
On the wall i painted with Silver Screen Behr paint, the pixels are about 1-2mm.
robswc
There's ads on consoles now? Wow... I feel like people would not have tolerated that 10 years ago.
I remember reading memes about how you have to "pledge" to the Mountain Dew or else you can't turn your console on... and that was comically exaggerated but we're certainly getting close...
BiteCode_dev
+1. I bought a samsung premiere projector, and it's a very good product. But the first thing it did was prompting me for the wifi, and hell no.
It's offline, plugged to a real computer that has internet access and I skip the projector home page as quickly as I can to get to the laptop mirrored displays.
scohesc
It's so frustrating. For some consumers, you're dropping multiple paychecks on a TV that you want to just _USE_ - but you can't because Samsung, LG, whoever decided to take money from various companies and shove their garbage advertising down your throats and you can't disable it.
I don't feel like browsing various commercial signage websites for TV's that don't have any advertising in and I don't feel like we should be punished for paying more for this either!
I just want a TV I can turn on - and it doesn't need to load an operating system - it doesn't need to delay displaying actual TV because the computer needs to reach out and upload telemetry, download advertisements, and take pictures of what you watch. It just needs to take an HDMI/RCA/whatever ports, and output the signal on the screen.
There's no expectation of privacy anymore in society - some company somewhere has eked out a slice of the market share, and are pounding their customers with ways to extract more wealth out of you while you sit and take it - the 2 or 3 second delays eating up your life for advertisements you'll never buy things from.
It's depressing - I just want a TV. A plain TV. I'd rather not pay more for a commercial display-tier TV that doesn't have any of this smart crap built in.
potatototoo99
There are plenty of plain TVs around though, just like there are plain operating systems, plain phones, etc but consumers still give their money to Samsung, Microsoft, Google, etc. Most people don't care, you are not the target audience.
dleslie
Got any Amazon/BestBuy/Costco links for a 65" 4k "plain" TV that lacks advertisements?
rexreed
Yes check out Sceptre brand you can buy in any of a number of places. As dumb as it gets. 65" 4k goes for pretty cheap.
danbr
I run a pihole on my network for exactly this reason. The amount of network traffic the TV attempts, even when on standby or watching over-the-air broadcast is astonishing.
Melatonic
Unless it pins the IP of a DNS server and does DoH
matbilodeau
I approve, PiHole does a great job at removing ads and other unwanted content.
titzer
It's a veritable dystopia with these little snitches.
timbit42
The vast majority of those are probably re-tries.
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The sentiment here on HN is to never connect the TV to the Internet and instead use a digital media player or external streaming device. I wholeheartedly agree. But then several people mentioned wanting to update the firmware. If you'll never connect it to the Internet, then you should never update the firmware either. It goes against conventional wisdom, but updating the firmware in this situation is more likely to cause problems than to bring you desired improvements.
The firmware update might have stricter DRM controls; it could have a tricky new way to exfiltrate data out via your streaming box; maybe the firmware update itself contains some static ads; perhaps in the near future we'll have public wifi or free Google community wifi, and the new firmware will have the smarts to use that and bypass your wifi.
And these days, once you update the firmware, you often cannot revert back to earlier firmware.