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defrost
vidyesh
Plus they also warn on each step the consequences of choosing those options and remind the user that this should be run after every update just in case MS enables/resets some of the disabled telemetry. Very pleasant UI/UX.
DavideNL
I disabled Windows (11) Updates with this tool, nevertheless it updated itself this week… sigh.
(and yes, i ran it frequently, after the previous/last update too.)
defrost
All the tools and scripts I've seen essentially make the same changes to disable certain behaviours.
However It appears Microsoft still forces certain critical (in their eyes) patches for zero days and can therefore do the sme for less critical things.
For 2+ years I've had a Windows 10 instance with updates (automatic and notifications) disabled .. and it has honoured that setting.
I manually update every few months after reading the details on the pendings and cross reading on Bleeping Computer | elsewhere for patch issues.
Two days ago - I woke to a rebooted computer with a forced "critical security update" applied.
I'm not happy - if microsoft can do that, then so can anyone that infiltrates their patch push ala Solar Winds etc.
lewantmontreal
I’ve noticed it’s better to install Windows without a connection to the internet. There will still be some packaged in software you might want to rid of, but at least not the advert apps like duolingo, candy crush and netflix. Then disable automatic installation of apps via Windows update and clean it up before allowing it to the internet.
Actually reminds me of how you absolutely should not install Windows XP with the ethernet cable plugged in back when more home computers were directly connected to the Internet. That thing would be chock full of worms within minutes, so you had to first install a software firewall while offline.
kro
Installing without internet connection also has the major benefit that it allows you to use a local user account rather than forcing you to signup for an online Microsoft/hotmail/.. account
type0
You can install it with local user, it just takes more time and they will nag you so you have to press ESC a couple of times. Most people don't know about this and are coerced into creating MS account, this isn't even some sort of dark pattern, it's a completely fraudulent practice.
npteljes
I just installed from a freshly downloaded Win 10 ISO, and there was either no option for a local account, or I just haven't triggered the way to escape creating an online account. At that point, there simply was nowhere to click on the UI, I had the choice of either creating one on the spot, or using one that already exists, and that's it. Really hated the experience.
vox_animarum
And even if you want to use an online account for e.g. OneDrive you do not want to login when installing windows because it names your user folder to an abbreviated version of your email.
Gazoche
Didn't they remove the option to use a local account? https://www.xda-developers.com/windows-11-requiire-microsoft...
Zren
I did not want to connect the laptop to the WiFi at all to risk an online account. When googling it, there was a video that stated I needed to:
Shift+F10 to open CMD.exe => taskmgr => terminate "Network Connection Flow"
DavideNL
Nope.
Simply unplug the internet cable, works in the latest windows 11.
JacobSeated
This was also my experience doing my last install, it caused me to:
- make it a priority to avoid Windows and run Linux instead whenever possible.
- strongly criticize Microsoft and Windows on my personal blog
- systematically list the bad stuff Microsoft is doing to ruin Windows, including but not limited to their dismantling of the taskbar with Windows 11.
The mandatory registration of a Microsoft account and included ad-ware is an extremely nasty thing about Windows.
vbezhenar
In my experience Windows installs all the bloatware after first Internet connection anyway.
I usually set up my Windows the following way:
1. Offline install. 2. Turn on Internet and leave it alone for a hour or two. It'll install all drivers from Microsoft and also it'll install bloatware. 3. Install additional drivers if needed. I install Nvidia ones because Microsoft drivers are not up to date, but that's optional. 4. Go to Settings/Apps and remove all bloatware and other bundled software I don't need.
That's quite a procedure, but it allows me to have more or less stable and debloated system.
With some laptops it might be necessary to use manufacturer-provided drivers instead of Microsoft ones. I don't really know what's the rule of thumb here.
Schroedingersat
> Actually reminds me of how you absolutely should not install Windows XP with the ethernet cable plugged in back when more home computers were directly connected to the Internet. That thing would be chock full of worms within minutes, so you had to first install a software firewall while offline.
So same as windows 10 then, just a different vendor for the malware?
chrisan
I'm in no way going to say win10 is a bastion of security but I don't know anyone who has had a virus with 10 compared to ENDLESS battles from back in the day helping fix friends/families infected PCs.
Not sure if people have just gotten smarter, or some of the default stuff is better, or both - but it is a markedly different time than before.
Sakos
WinXP was vulnerable to a lot of remote exploits out-of-the-box. If you just connected WinXP to the internet after a new installation (and without SP2 and up-to-date patches) and walked away for 24 hours, you could expect it to be infected by the time you got back. This was, of course, a much bigger issue back when we were directly connecting our PC's to the internet with dial-up. WinXP behind a properly configured router isn't at risk in the same way.
rightbyte
I think the point is that MS install adware and spying viruses on your computer with Windows 10 instead if hackers.
layer8
Viruses nowadays are most commonly uses to establish botnets and steal credentials, so virus writers try to not disrupt the host and to remain as invisible as possible. The one exception being ransomware.
tuetuopay
You have Microsoft Defender to thank for that. You now basically have an antivirus bundled in the OS, with the widest install base, that has become shockingly good.
water8
I mean unless you’re physically connecting to your modem and using your WAN Ip as your computer IP, Who exactly is sending you the worms when you plug in the ethernet?
Schroedingersat
Microsoft. Stealing personal information, forcing ads into the OS, installing software without permission, hijacking private network and computing resources for profit or for state actors, uploading user files and deleting them from the system, and making the system unresponsive are all things we used to call malware.
cobbaut
> I’ve noticed it’s better to install Windows without a connection to the internet.
I have a Windows 7 PC installed like this... and never connected it to the internet. It runs two single players games and works like a charm. Very secure also :)
seydor
This tool does not seem to be about windows preloaded software, but programs from various vendors that may be installed by users
lewantmontreal
The adware mentioned in the bloatware section are installed by Windows on Windows installation. May wary between locales.
hrez
icare_1er
That is amazing, thanks. It actually deserves its spot on the frontpage of HN.
Sholmesy
This is unbelievably cool. Bookmarked.
Phelinofist
Problem loading page
The page does not work without JavaScript enabled. Please enable it to use privacy.sexy. There's no shady stuff as 100% of the website is open source.
-
Still kind of ironic.
j1elo
Yeah I was already formulating my rant to complain about web pages that are not able to show what essentially is text and images, without supporting JavaScript...
But now that I saw the site, I can understand that the need is justified, given how the page is built (essentially not a web site, but an application that allows dynamically building a script, by injecting snippets that each do a specific function).
No doubt this could have been done with just text and hyperlinks, but the result would have been a completely different UX.
philliphaydon
It’s not just text and images. It build a script tailored to your desire.
phist_mcgee
Isn't that essentially what all web apps do? Dynamically add and remove content from a single page?
_Algernon_
Better Windows 10 debloater: https://ubuntu.com/tutorials/install-ubuntu-desktop#1-overvi...
alphachloride
I tried this debloater, but it debloated my ability to play video games that I like. And debloated the luxury of not having to drop to the command line to fix many of my problems. Also debloated the ability to run some very convenient day to day software.
Zhyl
When did you do this? Linux has gotten better over the last few years on almost all of those counts.
TheCapeGreek
I was a proton user for about 5 years. Highly recommend it. But it's not perfect.
Proton is great, but getting non-steam games on it is about as fiddly as the rest of Wine/Lutris/Crossover/etc. Especially with older games, alternate launchers, etc.
If you're fine with having a slightly smaller selection of games (mostly AAA suffers), then it's great. If you're into mod-heavy games, Windows still fares better IMO.
I put Win11 on my new machine to get more bang for buck with gaming, but I despise the OS in its current state. Purely from a DE UX perspective it doesn't seem very productive with its more limited shortcuts.
y42
That's what I'm hearing since 20 years.
ta8903
Something about this cookie-cutter smug response makes me nostalgic for a decade ago where you'd see posts like this on every forum every time Linux was mentioned.
AnonCoward42
Since Ubuntu tries to force snap onto (new) users, I do not recommend it for any new user. Sure, you can disable any of that and use flatpak instead, but it seems Canonical doesn't really want that.
geokon
Is Linux Mint a desnapped Ubuntu? Or was that a one-off for Firefox?
Debian is a nice snapless alternative bc it'll generally run anything meant for Ubuntu. The only major downside is no PPAs
j1elo
> Is Linux Mint a desnapped Ubuntu?
It is.
https://linuxmint-user-guide.readthedocs.io/en/latest/snap.h...
cassepipe
Ditched Windows when it was still Windows 8.1 for Linux Mint. I am still on Linux Mint and I have it installed on all my machines. Works out of the box. Not resources hungry. Helpful community on IRC. Good looking if you ask me. It also acts as a good filter against Ubuntu's experiments while benefiting from its widespread adoption. Never looked back.
simion314
Did flatpack improved? Can you say get CLI apps in flatpack because it was not possible and I my quick search found no examples. Personally snap helped me in setting up some stuff on a server (pdftk) I am not a big fan though, could be done better IMO, flatpack seems to be same RedHat/GNOME crap, pushed by force and not be it's quality.
AnonCoward42
> Can you say get CLI apps in flatpack
For new users the CLI stuff is usually less important. I don't categorically hate snap, but for new users it's bad long-term, too, since it is only controlled by Canonical and therefore a bad reliance. Nobody can add repositories for snap beside Canonical.
If you are an avid CLI user I recommend using containers instead of snap. This way you can even keep the sandbox with dotnet for example.
> flatpack seems to be same RedHat/GNOME crap, pushed by force and not be it's quality.
However it is not controlled by RedHat (and also not solely developed by them). At least everyone can add repositories to flatpak. Which is probably my biggest gripe with snap.
bogota
I mean if we are nitpicking ubuntu is pretty bloated you should compile your own os from scratch.
josefx
Getting rid of snap is already a good first step. I know, I know, snap is great, after all who doesn't want to fill up their primary disk with several full copies of chrome?
m_mueller
But only by shining sunlight onto your SSD!
nousermane
I understand you're being sarcastic, but there are plenty of intermediate options between "use Ubuntu" and "chisel transistors from a rock". In particular, if you want to dab into comping your OS, Gentoo is a good start. Or, if you want to go a bit deeper right away, Linux From Scratch (LFS) project has you covered.
KronisLV
I think this references this XKCD, in case anyone is curious: https://xkcd.com/378/
james-redwood
Windows makes Ubuntu look like Puppy Linux
w-ll
Serious question, is Ubuntu still including that Amazon spyware?
nixcraft
No. That was removed a long time ago https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-meta/1.443
Edit: Ubuntu version 18.04.xx (point release) or 20.04.xx and above does not contain the Amazon web app.
Biganon
I'm a heavy Linux user, but please keep comments like this one on reddit. This is a waste of time and energy. No, you can't just convince your employer to suddenly use Ubuntu. That's not how the real world works.
EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK
The most popular Linux distribution, aka Android, is full of bloatware that is very hard to uninstall. And, unlike with Windows, you can't install a debloater, debloaters are forbidden.
system2
Good luck running any business software on it.
legulere
Newer business software all runs on the web. Old business software may not even run on current windows machines.
namdnay
Office web is fine for day to day use, but not appropriate for anyone in finance/accounting/project management who will need to use Excel heavily
LtWorf
the reverse exists as well, a lot of jobs can't be done on windows.
Which is why windows ships WSL, to keep people who can't work on windows using it. Better yet, to allow their managers to force them to use windows even though they need linux.
DarkmSparks
Do you mean Google luck or Microsoft Azure luck?
system2
Nothing cloud. Regular software like Office, Adobe stuff, accounting software, industrial related software, and many more.
fl0id
Runs perfectly fine.
RektBoy
Win10 VMs?
philliphaydon
Pass. I would rather use windows than ubuntu. But I’ll stick to fedora. That’s the new beez kneez
dsign
I don't get Microsoft. Come on, the game is up. Everybody knows that the bloatware is because Microsoft derives money from it. That annoying screen at installation time asking you to sign your soul and those of your loved ones? MS gets X bucks per user per year in whatever twisted revenue they can derive from your (and your loved ones) personal data. Wouldn't be best to sell a version of Windows (they offer tons of versions of Windows) for...gasp...money? I would gladly pay a hundred bucks every few years for the next iteration of Windows if it doesn't treat me like a twat.
layer8
Windows officially already costs money (though Microsoft doesn’t seem to enforce it). And you can buy the Enterprise version for $MONEY which cuts down at least some of the crap.
fishoutofth
I could be wrong, but this seems like a surefire way to make your system develop weird quirks. Just looking at the issues someone seems to have restart/shutdown take 15 minutes: is this because of debloater or just regular windows things? Who knows?
npteljes
O&O's similar thingy even tells you this for some options: that you should only use them if you're really sure that you want the effect. This is what made me give up tinkering with Windows, it's just improbable to get it doing what you want, it will instead do what they want.
sccxy
I agree.
Those debloaters/registry cleaners always make more problems than they solve.
moontear
I personally like Sophia Script a lot to initially configure Windows to my liking: https://github.com/farag2/Sophia-Script-for-Windows
It also does a lot more than „debloat“ which is a loaded term on itself because tastes are different. Someone might like having certain things included in their installation, some don’t.
mherrmann
Or, you know, you could just run an OS that doesn't come with all the bloatware, such as Linux.
I know, I know. Not an option for many for corporate reasons or because you need some Win-only apps that don't work with Wine. But more people should consider it.
georgia_peach
The kids have had far less trouble with Debian/Gnome than Windows 10.
With Win10, they'd keep accidentally moving/hiding the taskbar around, toggling fullscreen, toggling the screen reader, changing it to weird resolutions, etc... Then when my wife tries to bring one of their school websites up for them, she gets frustrated by the whole mess, & calls me to straighten it out--since she's a mac person and has no patience with any of this windows nonsense.
Many years ago, a certain English professor told me about people who like to shove sticks up their urethras for fun. This article just reminded me of that. Memories!
npteljes
Individual action leads to nowhere after this point. As long as the public sector default to Windows, schools teach Windows and MS Office, and businesses mostly use Windows, Windows it is. People sure as hell don't bother learning a new operating system just to use at home, and they wouldn't also if Linux was this default either. Valve is doing the good work, for one, by creating a new computing platform for Steam on Linux.
cube00
Given the way Chromebooks are infecting education, I'm not sure the schools space is as safe for MS anymore.
tssva
My daughter is in the 10th grade and has never used Windows. For the past 4 years she has used a school provided Chromebook and outside of school work she uses Android or iOS devices.
phendrenad2
There are probably a lot of people who dislike the amount of bloat in windows, but aren't prepared to put in the work to convert to linux. It's perfectly reasonable to be somewhere in the middle.
UberFly
No kidding, but then those Win-only apps... It's been said infinite number of times after somebody says just run Linux. Many of us have considered it, believe me.
tssva
Most of the major Linux distros I have tried are bloated. Full of Gnome or KDE programs I will never use. Most come with libreoffice installed which I will never use.
vbezhenar
You can start with minimal installation and add what you need. Might require quite a bit of research and effort though.
Or just delete packages you don't need. Linux package managers are not that bad.
tssva
Uninstalling Windows apps is also quick and easy. Linux package managers don't provide me any advantages here.
timbit42
Linux packages can be removed and not leave any junk behind, unlike Windows apps.
tssva
My experience is that the days of Windows applications leaving files and dll's spread willy-nilly across your system is mostly gone. It has been a long time since I removed a Windows app and the application wasn't completely removed. Per user data files may remain but this is equally true on Linux.
f1refly
let me tell you about about dotfiles..
Mountain_Skies
The main thing holding Linux back is Linux evangelists and their desperate need to read a Dale Carnegie book or two.
cpach
macOS is very enjoyable and not bloated IMHO.
e3bc54b2
Also incredibly expensive and practically out of reach for vast majority of world population.
tssva
You can't even uninstall the chess game in macOS without disabling system integrity protection. Even then if you do an update it will return.
nicbou
Right? I just set up a new Macbook, and I was back to my usual setup within a day. There wasn't anything to disable. I just had to remove a few icons from the dock.
It's not everyone's cup of tea, but neither is Linux. I don't have the patience to find and maintain a Linux laptop, personally.
KronisLV
There was also O&O ShutUp10++, which gives you pretty granular control over what you want to enable or disable: https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10
For example, I might want to disable telemetry or certain app permissions, also disable the OneDrive integration with Explorer (because I use NextCloud or something else), but leave automatic driver updates on and allow Windows Defender to work.
It doesn't really remove software on its own, but it's a nice tool to have, and even illustrates how certain settings have changed across Windows updates (they just keep enabling telemetry with each update).
Addendum: on a slightly less related note, it feels like Windows 10 is the new Windows 7, a decent OS that people will stick with for a while in lieu of migrating over to Windows 11. In my case, it's because the redesign feels wholly unnecessary but also breaks things like my vertical taskbar (about which the developers said that they don't care because people like me are niche users[1]) and then there was the whole TPM fiasco.
Honestly, the only things keeping me on Windows at this point are gaming (around 25% of my Steam games can run on Linux) and software like MobaXTerm, for which I haven't found capable alternatives (e.g. GUI SSH/RDP/VNC/... client with integrated FTP/SFTP and the ability to split terminals, whilst being able to do simultaneous input in all of them, or disable either with a checkbox, e.g. send input to 7/9 open sessions).
[1] https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/vertic...
Barrin92
I always have to laugh when I see the O&O site and there's the big "Gold Microsoft Partner" plaque next to "ShutUp, free antispy tool" proudly at the top
AnonCoward42
> (they just keep enabling telemetry with each update)
I don't know, but this feels really illegal. It probably isn't, but this alone made me really nervous about using Windows. It feels like using Spyware.
johnebgd
Windows has been spyware since windows 10. Unless you could get your hands on what they called LTSB but they have done all they can to make that a difficult endeavor.
I for one also personally only use Windows for gaming at this point and even then I’m astounded with how well SteamOS works on a steamdeck to play games.
marak830
Oh I'd never heard of LTSB, that looks exactly like what I want.
Now let's see if I can buy a copy....
sitzkrieg
visual studio subscription lets you download all windows versions pretty easily
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alrlroipsp
> Honestly, the only things keeping me on Windows at this point are ... client with integrated FTP/SFTP and the ability to split terminals, whilst being able to do simultaneous input in all of them
You can split windows and broadcast to all terminal windows with several terminal emulators available for Linux. Examples include wezterm, Kitty, Terminator, Alacritty
draugadrotten
There is also AME aka Ameliorated Windows 10 "Windows 10 minus the spyware plus added stability and security." - https://ameliorated.info/
nikanj
”We have deleted all the Windows Update binaries. This makes the system more secure”
I…what. Disabling Windows Update, and billing it as improving security?!
imiric
I suppose the rationale is to give the user control over when and what they want to update. You can manually download and install individual updates from MS without being forced to use Windows Update.
vbezhenar
Those who disable Windows Update are very unlikely to bother to research which updates they need IMO.
imiric
These are great images for running in throwaway VMs, but how trustworthy is the project and how safe are the changes for using on bare metal as a primary OS?
I haven't audited the scripts they use, but I'm always concerned about running any custom Windows version cooked up by a random person.
system2
We should have something for Windows 11. Starting from the bizarre right click option menu fixes, task bar height, taskbar clock issues, freezing start menu, everything rounded back to squared edges, etc...
noisem4ker
e12e
Interesting (and a little scary, lol). Are there any patches/replacements for the windows 11 lock screen yet? (eg: one with only slideshow, no pop-ups)?
HeckFeck
It's entirely written in C. Impressive.
system2
Well, thanks for this.
rewgs
These are all pretty trivial registry changes. A PowerShell script should do it.
bananamerica
I love Linux but I'm convinced we need an actual for-profit alternative in that space that is not coupled with Apple hardware.
DoingIsLearning
Zorin OS, is exactly what you describe, it's free but you can pay for support and some extra bells and whistles.
Zorin OS is basically Ubuntu with sugar coating but in my view it does address all the usability/UX criticism coming from people transioning away from Windows/Mac.
I am a long time Debian user but I transioned both my parents away from Windows using Zorin OS.
Really happy with the experience overall. I am not sure they really grasp it but they love it, for them it's just a "free Windows my son installed".
badsectoracula
> actual for-profit alternative
The profit incentives are what brought Windows to the state it is today.
fsflover
How about https://puri.sm?
Get the top HN stories in your inbox every day.
O&O Software GmbH, Berlin do a nice suite of 'free' tools to remove apps and limit telemetry in Windows 10 and 11; see:
O&O AppBuster | ShutUp 10
[1] https://www.oo-software.com/en/ooappbuster
[2] https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10
* Free of charge for private users, companies and educational institutions