Bespoke Synth 1.0 – open-source software modular synthesizer

I'm in the exact same situation as you (played piano for years, then stopped, and now want to get back to it).

The only difference is that I have a few keyboards at my disposal, but again, I don't touch them... I need to get back at playing and creating music.

> > Also consider that there are no good audio drivers for Linux (like Asio for example) so you're almost forced to stay in windows or Mac...

> This is false.

This was my immediate thought as well. Not sure what level we're talking here, so sorry if I'm addressing the wrong part of the stack, but JACK on Linux has been a great experience for me in terms of latency and ease of use. I run into way more day-to-day problems on Windows.

What feature specifically are you missing on Linux?

Re: plugins, DAWs with VST sandboxing are great. I use Bitwig, and I've never lost work due to a plugin crash.

> Using git itself is a little problematic because it is very line-oriented and most project file formats for DAWs are not.

Ardour and Reaper use plaintext project formats that work well with Git, at least for basic versioning.

> Regarding plugins, I know that I'm not the only lead developer of a DAW who, if they possibly could, would refuse to support plugins entirely. The problem is that most users want more functionality than a DAW itself could feasibly provide (they also sometimes like to use the same functionality (plugin) in different DAWs or different workflows).

I think the answer to this would be something like Reaper's "JS" plugins, which are written in a small compiled language and distributed as source code. Compared to "JS", it would need to: 1) be open source; 2) be a better language; and 3) support pretty skeuomorphic graphics ('cause people seem to really want that in their plugins). Ardour seems to be working on something like this using Lua (don't know about the graphics, or if the plugins could be supported in other DAWs).

> Regarding plugins, I know that I'm not the only lead developer of a DAW who, if they possibly could, would refuse to support plugins entirely. The problem is that most users want more functionality than a DAW itself could feasibly provide (they also sometimes like to use the same functionality (plugin) in different DAWs or different workflows).

Honestly the sound quality of most DAWs' built-in effects and synths are garbage. Even the effects section of most VST synths is bad! Best to allow plugins rather than trying to reinvent the wheel; you'll have to pry my beloved serum/iZotope/u-he/softube plugins out of my cold dead hands

Also, the "sometimes" is an understatement. Anyone who's been doing this a while likely to be pretty invested in the plugins they have. I would say the majority of working musicians that use DAWs work this way

> This is false.

Suffice it to say that it's non-obvious to me where to start to go about getting a stable and mobile (ie laptop) experience. I'd like nothing better than to receive a response that makes me feel sheepish for thinking that Linux is the problem, and if anyone can give out good pointers I'd imagine you can.

> I want to like Ardour but it’s a miserable piece of software to try to make music in. Feels like a chore to perform any action, kills my vibe, would not recommend. After trying really hard to become comfortable using it, I finally gave up and bought Bitwig. It’s a proprietary DAW and kinda expensive but I’ve been producing music with it for a couple of years and it’s a dream to use - sort of a spiritual successor to Ableton IMO.

As I've mentioned above, I get all kinds of email about Ardour, some declaring their love for it, and some much more condemnatory than anything you've said here.

The point is that "trying to make music" isn't much of a description: people's workflows for "making music" vary dramatically. Not many years ago, more or less the only way to do this was to record yourself playing one or more instruments and/or singing. These days, there are many fundamentally different workflows, and countless minor variations of each one. If Bitwig works for you, it's no surprise that Ardour doesn't. There's a bunch of people for whom the opposite is true. You have to be prepared to try different tools and figure out which ones work for you.

Finally, ASIO and JACK don't really at the same level. JACK on Windows actually uses ASIO. The comparison to ASIO on Linux is ALSA, and sure, I'd agree that it's better than ASIO is most ways (though maybe not 100%).

>> No plug-in or DAW has a CLI

> I’m a software developer and musician who only uses Linux and I don’t care about this.

I am a software developer and musician who uses Linux and I do care about this. I run headless, and control my audio software through custom logic and hardware while playing live. I ended up writing a custom synthesizer and see because I couldn't find anything that works well for my use case

(I'm still open to something else; my synth doesn't sound very good. Designing custom sounds is not something I'm great at or something where I really want to focus.)

ASIO, really?

Havng had zero problems with this (already many years ago, in the days where getting low latency on linux was extremely hard) on a variety of machines but all with pretty decent cards is it possible that the problem has nothing to do with ASIO but rather with crappy drivers / manufacturers? Or perhaps you just had bad luck?

JACK2? Sorry my ignorance, it's been a while I abandoned Linux audio for Ableton on Windows with a focusrite Scarlet. Did they solve that JACK/alsa problem? Without running a2j in the background?

Pipewire is a layer above most of the really important stuff.

Pedalboard is also not a realtime audio environment (as was clarified by one of its developers here on the HN thread last week). In that sense it is extremely different from Bespoke (and nearly everything else).

For you pythonheads, please check out Olivier's wonderful pyo https://github.com/belangeo/pyo

I'll never thank you enough for linking pedalboard... That's exactly what I've always needed lol

Although we are still debating with some smart people about this (since actual measurements call it into question), this was our (Ardour dev team's) take on this question:

https://ardour.org/plugins-in-process.html

hey! I'm the guy who developed bespoke. I too thought that the waveform-in-wire thing was original, but a few years after I put it in, I realized that I had subconsciously stolen it from ReacTable. there's nothing new under the sun, everything is a remix!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mgy1S8qymx0

Not quite the same but I love the way the ports in VCV Rack are LED's who's intensity changes with the signal voltage, really makes debugging at a glance easier.

It depends a bit on interpretation: if you pay 15, you of course have also 5 fewer in your pocket, so the 5 fewer can be included in the 15 fewer, than it's correct.

  const originalDollars = 30;
  const myDollars = originalDollars - 15;
  const fiveDollarsLess = myDollars <= (originalDollars - 5);
  const fifteenDollarsLess = myDollars <= (originalDollars - 15);
  console.log(fifteenDollarsLess && fiveDollarsLess);
  // true

i disagree.

what you propose wouldn't make sense in my opinion, as its basically two consecutive boolean declaration

    $5 less = pocket - paid <= pocket - 5
    $15 less = pocket - paid <= pocket - 15

$15 less in the pocket is at least $5 less in the pocket.

Replies and downvotes mark a strong disagreement. So okay, my interpretation is not mainstream, but I still think it's a possible interpretation.

The difference in interpretation comes from the nature of "features": are they actions or verifications? A verification is (usually) idempotent / has no consequence on the state of the world, but an action isn't.

I read the lines as "takes $x from your pocket".

http://4klang.untergrund.net/ specific details about 4klang for those curious.

what are you using nowadays?

I used to have a synth buying guide. For people just starting out I would go for:

• Get Reaper. It’s a mainstream DAW, is fully functional, a free download, and only $60 to register after 90 days.

• Valhalla Supermassive for reverb: https://valhalladsp.com/shop/reverb/valhalla-supermassive/

• The VST fork of VCVrack for a modular synth: https://github.com/bsp2/VeeSeeVSTRack#downloads

I would get a keyboard controller with full sized keys and a 5-pin DIN MIDI out for just over $200, but that can come later.

One thing to avoid is the rabbit hole of concentrating on what gear to buy over actually making music with the gear.

If you're not going to make money off it, my opinion is you can use cracked VSTs without any concerns of "is it right".

In fact, as with a lot of pirated soft/media the experience is superior. Licensing and DRM of music software is a headache - dongles, software centers and other bloat. Scene groups like R2R even optimize performance and patch out bugs in addition to cracking protections, making their releases superior than that of the original developers.

Otherwise have a look at Splice rent-to-own plugin licensing.

There are sooooo many VST plugins out there. If you don't see the value in the cost of Omnisphere don't buy it. Look for other options. It's an extremely competitive market.

Ableton Live Suite has a tremendous amount of tools out of the box and contains everything you need to make music with. Look for second hand copies on forums. You'll likely be able to pick a copy up for $400 or so. You could buy that and never buy any software again.

> And instead of paying upfront, synths / effects can make money by taking a cut of your revenue

Hahahaha, have you asked how much the average electronic music producer makes vs the average software dev? ;)

Omnisphere is the last thing you should buy.

There are countless free VSTs that are very, very good. KVRAudio is a good news source for what's happening in VST World, both paid and free.

https://www.kvraudio.com/

There are also numerous plug-in discount stores (Audio Plugin Deals, Plugin Boutique, Emmett VST Buzz, and others) that regularly sell mainstream VSTs at hugely discounted sale prices.

Free DAWs are harder to find, but you can get intro-level DAWs with enough features to get started for less than $200.

On a Mac Logic Pro is $199, which is a full-featured DAW with a solid collection of virtual instruments.

Take a look at Reaper, VCV Rack, Surge, Tyrell, Zebralette, Dexed, and Helm.

It doesn't have to be. Logic Pro X was $199 when I got it. GB is free, and pretty useful. I haven't used cakewalk, but it's free.

I imagine there are oodles of cheap DAW(s) that will at least let you sequence and mix everything together. Technically, I don't think you need a DAW, if you're just playing (though obviously that's a very limited use case). I feel like you could even record tracks into Audacity straight from the instrument

There are TONS of great sounding free VSTs and some very good cheap ones. Some of them can be gotten at a deep discount (though you're usually shelling out $50-100+), but the MSRP is something outrageous. I don't want to shill, but you can "rent-to-own" for zero fee now (don't know how many DAWs are available, but plugins for sure.

It doesn't HAVE to be expensive, though there's probably some stuff you'll inevitably be tempted to buy, as with any hobbies. Is dropping eg. $100-500 on a hobby once or twice a year "expensive"? It's also pretty easy to get into and buy things as you go. You really don't have to drop thousands of dollars on tons of software.

You don't have to pay a dime. Don't quote me on this, but I think there's a major free modular simulator that's pretty good. You could get some solid vintage synths, some drum machine/groovebox, and effects for like $50-80.

If you think about everything going into it that's a ton of functionality for your buck, especially compared with traditional hardware synths. I have $3-5k in my rig (plus I buy VSTs), and it's still relatively basic. I don't own a single high end synth, my most expensive would be considered midrange at ~$1200... ONE BOX ... you could buy so much fucking software for that, it's crazy.

BTW almost none of this is necessary for you to experiment and create. You need very little... like 1-5 vsts, some utility(s), and minimal plug-in. I encourage OP and anyone reading this to create if they have the urge. I'm 100% positive you can get into it at any price point. Paying more money won't help you as much as you think here. Much better to keep it small and master one box at a time.

>I would much rather have it be like software development where almost everything is free. And instead of paying upfront, synths / effects can make money by taking a cut of your revenue (I don't think that's like software development but it means synth producers still make revenue).

I have to disagree with you there. First of all, I don't agree with this generalization, as it seems very focused on your own background. There are lots of people selling software (including design tools), sometimes for outrageous prices, if it's sought after.

It seems like almost all software is sold. I don't know how this business model is supposed to work. This is how small to medium sized software companies work. They have to sell to as many people as possible TBH, because most of their userbase is going to make $0.

I think your frame of reference is out of wack regarding what stuff costs, because we're getting screaming bargains on soft things (eg. media, newspapers, ect.) This "everything must be" free attitude is really toxic and having some troubling effects. I think it would also be hard to prove what people are using, and enforce this. Even for recordings, but so much money is made live.

Wow, what a tirade. Sorry folks, but I wanted to get that out there.

If there's a plugin version of this I can see it giving ZynAddSubFx a run for its money in my workflow.

Yes! Thank you for reminding me how it's called! I remember seeing it some time ago and it's absolutely in my wish list!

> It was a shame there was the whole thing of losing the source code

Yes, I can remember that very well! Eventually Oskari rebuilt the app basically from scratch, using .NET (at least IIRC) and that's what you get today if you go to the site and download it. It's not the original app but it maintains the same API for modules. Oskari nowadays is a researcher and he published some interesting articles: https://arxiv.org/abs/1407.5042

> Have you tried Drambo on iOS?

Nice, thank you! I had never heard of it but after watching a couple of YouTube videos I decided I'm going to download it

I have tried SunVox on the iPad, it's a very nice application.

On tracker websites I used to be mastazi just like my HN username, but I never released my own music I think. However I made a CD and gave it to friends, I might still have a copy somewhere at my parents' home in Italy. That's the only memory I have, because I lost all of my Buzz project files in a HD failure many years ago.

The modern web is different from what we have back then, but if you look hard enough you can still find corners of the web that look familiar :-)

> This is usually called "MIDI mapping" or similar and is available in basically every DAW these days.

I'm aware of MIDI mapping, my question was about the possibility to make a stand alone sysnthesizer (with keyboard and knobs) in which the necessary controls would be read from analog inputs while still displaying them on the screen as if they were changed with the mouse, which is not easy to do when playing live.

> Something like qjackctl (with Jack, obviously) could do this for you, as you can route things however you want in a drag-and-drop UI.

Sorry, my second sentence wasn't clear at all. I'd love to see a general purpose (not related to sound or any other use) library to allow the graphical representation of structures links (list nodes) together as this software and others do with generators, effects, etc. Ideally, it should operate on the header of a structure which contains the relevant fields for linking to others. When I alter the links on the screen, it does the same on the represented nodes. That would be the way I would build for example a drum machine in which each structure contains also a pattern and I can move them at will back and forth, replicate them, set their own fields (number of repeats, etc). This would be again a sound related application, but what I'm looking for is something really general purpose.