Posted 3 days ago

/

267 comments

/

mozilla.org

3 days ago by Santosh83

Great. Unlike many, I walk my talk and have always used Firefox since more than a decade with no exceptions. The very commonly given reason that DevTools are better in Chrome still doesn't stop one from using Firefox for all other general browsing. Unless we support alternatives we really shouldn't complain when they gradually die off in a space that is increasingly coming under the control of giant corporations with bottomless pockets.

3 days ago by needle0

"Unless we support alternatives we really shouldn't complain when they gradually die off in a space that is increasingly coming under the control of giant corporations with bottomless pockets." Exactly this. Sure Firefox sometimes isn't the absolute best in a given characteristic, but it's still a damn good browser overall, and the concern over the encroaching Chromium monoculture is more than enough to keep me using it.

3 days ago by weaksauce

I haven't found firefoxe's dev tools to be much different than chrome's... and you can use chrome for a particular debugging issue or development. I think firefox is a great daily driver.

3 days ago by LocalPCGuy

Been using Firefox daily as my development browser for the last 6 months. Started as an experiment, but stayed because I liked it.

The only thing I noticed is that sometimes Chrome's errors in the console are slightly better. I prefer Firefox's HTML/CSS panels, and the CSS Grid/Flex support is generally better. As anything, this comment is a point-of-time comment, they are both iterating rapidly, and when one adds something people like, the other usually pushes it in also.

3 days ago by matsemann

> The very commonly given reason that DevTools are better in Chrome

I don't find that to be true. At least not anymore. I use both Chrome and Fx bout 50/50 for developing, and they each have something the other misses.

For instance, "preserve log" in Chrome's network tab throws away all the actual response data when moving to a new page. In Firefox it's there. So when debugging through our micro-frontend flow I prefer Fx.

3 days ago by jniedrauer

I also massively prefer the request replay workflow in firefox. Using the chrome console with curl just feels clunky compared to firefox's "edit and resend."

3 days ago by viraptor

> reason that DevTools are better in Chrome still doesn't stop one from using Firefox for all other general browsing

It doesn't even stop you from developing with FF. DevTools were completely usable for years and unless you need very specific functionality, FF is just fine.

3 days ago by Zardoz84

I personally think that FF dev tools are better that Chrome. Every time that I'm forced to use Chrome Dev tools, I get confused.

3 days ago by jvzr

I'm happy that I am not alone!

Quick example: event listeners in Firefox are visibly attached to their DOM element; in Chrome, I just can't find them. There's this Event Listeners list in a sidebar somewhere, but getting the function that attached it is a PITA.

3 days ago by mrweasel

When I used Chrome, years back, it was always despite the developer tools, which I always found to be worse that those in Firefox.

To me Chrome is the browser version of Windows. I can get by and it sort of does what I need. It’s just that somehow it feels a little half-baked, while being too much at the same time. It can as you say: be confusing but you are also left with the: why is this a feature and why is this in my browser.

Firefox has a few feature which only exists so I have something to turn off, but Chrome is starting to look like Emacs, all it needs is a good browser.

3 days ago by ancarda

Firefox's dev tools is a large part of why I switched back from Chrome. I just couldn't figure out how anyone is productive with Chrome's dev tools!

3 days ago by antihero

The FF console seizes up far less than the Chrome one in my experience. The only thing that is keeping Brave installed is the video playback seems slow/choppy as hell on MacOS.

Edit: Just tried a 60FP4k video on youtube and it was smooth as butter so that's interesting.

3 days ago by markandrewj

Chromes development tools are good, but Firefox has also been doing some interesting things in this area recently. In some regards Firefox pioneered modern web development with tools like Firebug. I think developers sometimes forget that for most users developer tools are not a selling feature though. There are a number of things, that both Firefox, and Safari, do better then Chrome, from a regular user perceptive. As an example, download and bookmark management. All that said, Chrome for mobile is really excellent compared to some of the other Android browsers I used in the past. I use both browsers daily, and find things I like and dislike about both.

3 days ago by irrational

I started using Firefox because of Firebug when it first came out. It made web development so much easier. I continued to use firebug until it was discontinued (I still feel that it was superior to the dev tools built into the browsers, at least as they were at the time it was discontinued - I remember the console was especially better). I’ve continued to use Firefox since then out of years of habit.

3 days ago by jeltz

Agreed, Firefox's dev tools have been really good for over 5 years now.

3 days ago by simion314

For my work project I feel like the debugger has got slower, like when you press Ctrl+P to load a js file(we are using source maps) in debugger it takes so much longer in present where it was instant in the past - does anyone feel this slowdown or is something on my side only.

3 days ago by SketchySeaBeast

There's even a special version - I've used Firefox developer edition for a while now - it supports web sockets while the normal Firefox didn't (I don't know if it now does). My only complaint is that clearing the cookies has a weird delay to it when compared to chrome.

3 days ago by wybiral

I used Firefox back when it was competing with IE and then switched to Chrome for a while because of the performance difference.

But I switched back to Firefox about 3-4 years ago because of the growing Chromium monoculture (which is even greater now that Edge is using Chromium) and because the performance difference isn't really there anymore.

Mozilla has done some great work keeping up with the giants. Lockwise is great. The "Send Tab to Device" feature is great. And they're working on offline voice recognition using DeepSpeech in future releases (Chrome sends all audio to Google for recognition).

3 days ago by noisy_boy

I am a pretty ardent Firefox supporter and prefer it over Chrome but some of the issues are still jarring and really affect the user experience. E.g. this 10 year old bug which I still have to deal with multiple times every month where if you have couple of windows open with one having pinned tabs and close the other one first, the pinned tabs are not restored upon restart: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=587400

Mozilla needs to shift focus, atleast briefly if not long term, to work on squashing such common issues instead of racing to add new features.

3 days ago by izolate

Agreed. I'm tracking a 7 year old bug to support `<input type="month" />` that's probably an easy win, given the foundation work is completed by supporting other date input formats.

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=888320

3 days ago by clairity

yah, i would love it if mozilla focused on all kinds of form controls, bringing them to parity styling-wise, adding more hooks for things like validation/more complex interactions, adding common controls (like month), etc.

basically, they should look at the various web ui toolkits like bootstrap and integrate all the controls and behaviors common across all of them. it would be such a major win for developers and users.

3 days ago by agumonkey

Maybe Mozilla should stop the features and branding for a little while and make a revamp sprint ?

2 days ago by pjc50

I have a 20 year old feature request to support "if type is text/plain (maybe text/*) and firefox brings up the download box, add the option to just view it in the browser in the first place".

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=57342

(this has become less relevant in recent years as "everyone" uses github to present source to the world, and websites in general vanish in favour of social media)

2 days ago by pabs3

There is an extension to do something better:

https://github.com/Rob--W/open-in-browser

3 days ago by satori99

Oh wow, I hate this one so much.

I try to avoid opening multiple FF windows because I always close the wrong one last.

3 days ago by recursive

If you're closing all of them, you can just use Ctrl+Shift+Q.

3 days ago by matsemann

Try restore the other windows with ctrl+shift+n

3 days ago by infogulch

Yeah I now quit all FF windows at once with Ctrl+Shift+Q or Menu > Exit, or if I'm closing because Windows is restarting (not uncommon on Win10) I just let Windows close FF and it'll reopen after restart.

3 days ago by AnIdiotOnTheNet

I doubt it will happen. Fixing bugs is not sexy, so modern developers generally avoid it at all costs. Especially if there is a UI makeover they could be doing instead.

3 days ago by agurk

Of note for those using Wayland/Mutter Firefox 78 now has the option of Partial Present[0] and better supported VA-API for video playback.

Interestingly there was a recently discovered Mutter bug[1] where the Culling code to prevent rendering of windows that were not visible was not working. This fix will need to be deployed to see the biggest benefit of Partial Present.

[0] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1620076

[1] https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=GNOME-Br...

3 days ago by guerrilla

When did they start supporting VA-API? I didn't notice. Lacking that was one of the reasons I got a new computer.

3 days ago by techntoke

With this release

3 days ago by guerrilla

Oh that's wonderful. I'll get back some of the CPU of my new computer. I've pretty much have a core dedicated to it.

3 days ago by jiggawatts

Wow, they finally got around to fixing a certificate-handling issue. That must have closed a bunch of decade-old bugzilla issues.

Now if they could just get around to supporting intermediate CA certificates and all of the Windows certificate stores, not just a couple of randomly chosen ones, that would be swell.

Also, IPv6 support in PAC files would be nice.

If any Mozilla employees come to YC News: Unimportant-seeming stuff like this is why Chrome crushed Firefox in the Enterprise.

3 days ago by ocdtrekkie

> Unimportant-seeming stuff like this is why Chrome crushed Firefox in the Enterprise.

This isn't why. At work I deal with two different vendors who refuse to troubleshoot any issues with their products on anything but Chrome. To this day, the issue has never been a browser compatibility issue, but we have to actually temporarily give the user a Chromium-based browser just to get a modicum of decent support these days.

Both vendors, of course, tell us we should just use Chrome because it's the only browser they support. (Even though other browsers work fine.) And unfortunately, most IT staffers end up getting directed by superiors to follow said instructions.

3 days ago by acdha

> This isn't why. At work I deal with two different vendors who refuse to troubleshoot any issues with their products on anything but Chrome.

This is the case now but a decade ago, in the period the original poster was talking about, it was because of things like what they mentioned: Mozilla needed some attention to detail on those tickets, a robust MSI install package, and a polished policy deployment system. Lots of large shops deployed it but it wasn't loved because there was always some wart to work around.

3 days ago by hinkley

We got Firefox in the first place due to insubordination by developers, many of whom were told that we were only going to support IE.

But it was easier to debug on Mozilla so it got supported first because you could eliminate 90% of the bugs before ever having to touch IE.

3 days ago by monus

I have resisted using anything other than Firefox since the IE days but I have been literally forced to switch to Chrome because of this issue on my work Macs and every time I checked, I was surprised to see that’s not implemented. Finally. Thank you Mozilla!

3 days ago by akerro

Pocket is great and totally deserves more promotion. I know this will trigger a lot of people saying it's spyware, I used to think that too, but then I embraced it and it's great for bookmarking, syncthing tabs, reading news as podcasts on mobile etc. It's great.

3 days ago by emptysongglass

Pocket is great but people need to start holding their feet to the fire: it's been 3 years and Mozilla still hasn't open-sourced the codebase, as they promised they would. [1]

[1] https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2017/02/27/mozilla-acquires-po...

3 days ago by dblohm7

The client is, FWIW.

3 days ago by pbhjpbhj

Something being spyware and you embracing it seem orthogonal. Are you saying it is spyware (not an argument I've seen before) but you choose to use it anyway?

3 days ago by whereistimbo

It was a third party app and the forced bundling feels like a bloatware. Now Mozilla Corporation owns it, it doesn't really a concern anymore.

3 days ago by JadeNB

I'm not sure about the claims about spyware—I suspect akerro was simply reporting on the general feeling of the complaints, rather than using precise language—but I know that there was a loud outcry from people unhappy that the proprietary service Pocket was integrated as a part of the core browser, rather than as an extension, which seemed not to be consonant with the stated Mozilla mission to openness and transparency; and that, at least initially, there were no switches to get rid of it. (I don't remember the exact situation now, but whatever it is is the result of Mozilla giving in in response to lots of user push-back against the forced integration.)

3 days ago by akerro

I said other people will call it spyware, because they don't understand how and it works and what it does.

3 days ago by blendergeek

I think the biggest complaint with Pocket is Mozilla's broken promise to open-source it. After that, we will all be able to check for ourselves whether Pocket is spyware. I look forward to that day, may it come soon.

3 days ago by octodog

I agree, pocket is awesome for mobile use and I would recommend it to anyone. My only complaint is not being able to turn off reader view by default in the browser.

3 days ago by lou1306

I also use Pocket a lot. Alas, I do wish that they had Kindle integration... As of now I use crofflr [1], which mostly works but is unfortunately no longer updated.

[1]: https://www.crofflr.com/

3 days ago by torvarun

I have a Kobo Touch e-reader which has Pocket integration built in and it's great. The reader lags at times because of its age, but until Kindle gets Pocket I won't give up on it.

3 days ago by krtkush

While there are no first party Kindle integrations, I find p2k.co perfect for my use case, i.e. push pocket articles to my Kindle.

3 days ago by mellosouls

Me too, p2k is perfect. Initial setup a couple of minutes, then it all happens automatically.

3 days ago by jadbox

Just tested Firefox 79.0b1 with webrender.all and surprisingly it's performing leaps over Chrome on Win10 Intel GPU. In the below image, left side is Firefox Developer Edition and right is Chrome 83.0.4103.116 on Windows 10 on a Dell XPS.

https://i.redd.it/6gaj12tlh2851.png

3 days ago by Someone1234

If anyone at Mozilla is reading, your Security Fixes link 404s.

It will be here when it is released:

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/security/advisories/mfsa2020-2...

3 days ago by coldpie

I think this happens every release, although I don't know why. Probably just different teams pushing the button at different times.

3 days ago by caution

New in Firefox 78: DevTools improvements, new regex engine, and abundant web platform updates

https://hacks.mozilla.org/2020/06/new-in-firefox-78/

Daily Digest

Get a daily email with the the top stories from Hacker News. No spam, unsubscribe at any time.