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sholladay
komali2
How'd the company turned out? I'm pretty interested in accessible web dev and have toyed with the idea of working on profiling tools, or maybe something to show abled users just how shitty their site is to use with various access tools.
sholladay
Ai Squared was great and that was my favorite job. The company had been around for a while, with a rich history, and they made good products. Particularly Sitecues, the division I worked in, had a good culture and product, which was designed to modernize the company. We took our time to get the implementation right and management supported us. Unfortunately, Sitecues had been burning through the rest of the company's revenue. Right as we were starting to scale and get customers left and right, some of the financial backers decided to sell to a private equity firm. A few months later, days before Christmas, they laid off everyone at Sitecues except for me and effectively shut it down. I was kept on just to keep the servers running for a few more months, probably to fulfill some contractual obligations. It was a disaster. Other parts of the company were outsourced or merged into other companies, including Freedom Scientific, which had long been "the enemy". They renamed the combined organization to VFO, and later renamed again to Vispero. Now they focus on profiting off of accessibility related lawsuits, which Sitecues had aimed to prevent. It's disgusting. I would avoid doing business with Vispero or any of their subsidiaries. The Sitecues source code is public on GitHub now, though, since someone stopped paying the bills.
marcusjt
There's enough accessibility guidance and testing tools in the world, especially now that Deque have added premium features to AXE. The problem is product teams/squads not actually using the guidance and tools available to create fully accessible user experiences, the root causes of which are many.
emayljames
Good'ol archive.org to the rescue.
tdeck
For those curious about the technical details here, here's a dump of the iGrill Android manifest (it's not XML because Android APKs contain a binary manifest): https://pastebin.com/fwbJ9TjD
It looks like this is the culprit:
E: activity (line=48)
A: android:theme(0x01010000)=@0x7f110149
A: android:name(0x01010003)="com.weber.igrill.pages.splash.SplashActivity" (Raw: "com.weber.igrill.pages.splash.SplashActivity")
A: android:screenOrientation(0x0101001e)=(type 0x10)0x1
E: intent-filter (line=52)
E: action (line=53)
A: android:name(0x01010003)="android.intent.action.VIEW" (Raw: "android.intent.action.VIEW")
E: category (line=55)
A: android:name(0x01010003)="android.intent.category.BROWSABLE" (Raw: "android.intent.category.BROWSABLE")
E: data (line=57)
A: android:scheme(0x01010027)="http" (Raw: "http")
amelius
Does anyone else feel that editing these manifest files is like filling out tax forms?
I personally can't blame them for getting this wrong if the development tools don't provide adequate feedback.
WJW
It would be nicer if the tooling was better, but at the same time:
1. Everyone else can apparently do it properly. 2. They could have caught this problem in testing.
It's just a case of a non-software company adding on an app as an afterthought.
laumars
I wouldn’t be surprised if they just outsourced the app development to the lowest bidder.
cptskippy
Rainbird's app similarly registers intent filters for PDF, HTTP, and a few other things.
rhizome
Android is such a drag sometimes. Between mystery quirks like this, where I'm sure someone who has been making Android apps for 6 years will be able to explain it, and things like the absolute inability to override the order of items in the sharing panel[1], such that Android will routinely topline sharing to a contact you got one text message from three years ago.
"F.U., that's why" is the simplest conclusion I can draw. "Unpaid concept testing" is the next simplest.
1. https://cdn57.androidauthority.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/0...
9nGQluzmnq3M
> the absolute inability to override the order of items in the sharing panel
As an extra F.U., it also changes the list of contacts after a second. So I try to tap on my wife, only to have it substituted with the plumber who came once half a year ago... and this of course gets logged by the AI, ensuring the plumber continues to hold pride of place in my contacts.
Groxx
This is quite literally my least favorite UI feature that Android has ever released.
It's slow. It encourages mis-taps. I have intentionally tapped it literally <10 times ever despite using the share dialog thousands of times, since it almost never shows me the desired contacts, and even then I've tapped the wrong contact half the time.
It's incomprehensibly awful, wantonly violates even the most basic user-interaction guidelines of the past few decades, and there's no way to turn it off. What in the world are they thinking / drinking.
Naracion
I don't even understand what this feature is supposed to be. All I know is that the share screen _used to_ work really well! It used to show my most frequently contacted friends / family across applications (eg. Whatsapp vs Hangouts vs email) and it was a breeze to share content. Now... It shows the correct contacts for ~1 second, enough time for my brain to think oh maybe I should try and oh nevermind it's gone.
freehunter
iOS actually isn’t much better here. Occasionally I’ll see something on Apple News that I want to share with friends who don’t use Apple News. I just want a web link. But despite Safari being literally the only icon I’ve ever tapped on to share something from Apple News, I have to hit the “...” and then scroll to find Safari buried in the list. I have to scroll past Strava despite (as far as I’m aware) Strava not even being able to open the link and me never having used it to open the link.
harikb
iPhone has the same issue in something simple as recent contacts / phone dialer screen. I end up clicking the last dialed number that gets replaced on top of last-but-one by the time my finger moves to tap what appears as last-number, which was really the last-but-one, but the history wasn’t updated then.
addled
My least favorite android UI feature is the "clear all" option on the list of notifications. Every time I use it, they randomly show up again hours or even days later.
hnick
Is there an agreed upon name for this, where a website or app loads elements piecemeal so we click the wrong thing by mistake?
I know it exists as an intentional dark pattern (so we just think that's what happened). But it also seems so common now across computing and it pisses me off every time.
liggitt
Laggy loading of items into a tappable target area is begging to be called the “slow poke” pattern
cubedrone
In my opinion, Windows search is the absolute most infuriating example of this, compounded by how slow it is. Let's name it so we can shame it
ashishb
I want to know this too. Another example is Google search. If you search, click on a search result and then go back then a panel slowly appears below that link. So if you are going to click the next link, it interferes with that.
habosa
Someone once told me this is called being "matador-ed" because it's just like pulling the cape away from the charging bull.
I love that term and the Android share dialog has always been my top example.
Groxx
"reflow" or "layout jank" are ones I've seen a fair number of times (not sure if "jank" was intended as "stuttering" or "unreliable", but both work if you go for the feeling)
redkinght99
https://www.darkpatterns.org/types-of-dark-pattern Maybe one of these?
shaggyfrog
Three Card Monte?
I find this happens with computer game UIs a lot, too, especially for dynamic UI elements that float above static UI elements. Especially when there is a lag due to animations.
mehrdadn
This happens with Google Chrome address bar suggestions on Android too. Drives me nuts every time.
Swizec
ENGAGEMENT!
A product manager somewhere in Google is excited for their quarterly bonus.
I just clicked on google ads 3 times in 2 minutes because it keeps showing image search results. Then juuuuust as you're about to click the row of ads shows up and you click on an ad.
The AI then congratulates itself on serving such relevant ads.
gibolt
Not only does it enable mistaps, the speed each time is inconsistent. The order each time is inconsistent. I never know what app or person will be high up on the list
lowwave
> and this of course gets logged by the AI
@9nGQluzmnq3M don't mean to mock you. It more that it sparked a general observation that seems to be the case now dasy . It is how 'funny' it is that now days we tend to all a lot of stuff AI. Back in the days pre-internet days, this is just some kind of preferences we stored per user bases. I can see that the IT industry is a lot of what is in fashion.
wyattpeak
I don't think the two are the same thing. I can't speak for everyone, but when I talk about AI in the context I'm talking about opaque systems with no obvious connection between my action and its response.
The sorts of things phones used to remember I'd never refer to as AI. A list of contacts sorted by the frequency with which I use them isn't AI. A list of contacts sorted in an order I don't understand, with a slight preference for frequent contacts, is.
The latter have proliferated recently, hence the shift.
9nGQluzmnq3M
It's an "AI" in the sense that it's an uncontrollable, unknowable black box that's clearly trying to be "smart" (artificially intelligent).
It's definitely not sorted by contact frequency or anything close to it, because many of the people I share with all the time never show up. As I type, three of my "top" 4 (including that plumber) are SMS, which is doubly weird since I almost exclusively use WhatsApp.
Forge36
I just fucked this up today. I didn't do anything bad, but apparently some apps share by default when selected?
meraku
This has been bugging me as well for years. Only found an app called Sharedr recently which replaces the sharing dialog. It's not perfect and has a limitation with sharing files, but it's a million times better than the default option.
trashburger
Not sure if the same issue, but Android 9 takes a second to load your contacts from apps. Want to send a link through SMS? Tap Share, and Messaging is at the top row. But if you hesitate for a second, your Whatsapp contacts will load in and suddenly you're sending a link to someone that shouldn't get it.
Naracion
This is so weird. I don't use messaging, just Whatsapp. My experience is the polar opposite--it shows my Whatsapp contacts whom I actually want to share with for a second, and then replaces them with messaging contacts.
It's like they know what our intent is, and intentionally replace what we want with what we don't want.
madeofpalk
> the absolute inability to override the order of items in the sharing panel[1]
that's funny because on iOS you seemingly can override the order, but the behavior of that between different apps (and/or content types?) is so undeterministic that people just give up.
codercotton
I swear there's some AI going on here. I've noticed that suggestions in my share panel differ depending on content, location, and other things.
Or maybe it's just really undeterministic. :)
hnick
Any sufficiently unadvanced AI is indistinguishable from a random number generator.
prh8
If you're thinking of the inconsistency of the suggested contacts, it is based on content, source app, etc. For pictures, there's even analysis of picture contents. All on device. Unfortunately, there's no way to remove someone from being suggested, except to delete your message thread with them.
tripzilch
> Or maybe it's just really undeterministic. :)
Never attribute to AI that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
why_only_15
There is
xeromal
Thank you for pointing that out. I often share things with my girlfriend and never share things with my landlord, but android share deems it necessary to show my landlord as the top level person to share with and my girlfriend nowhere to be found.
Sevaris
For some reason, one of my top contacts on my iPhone is always this one awful customer I had sometime last year. Forget that I've talked to dozens of other people since, apparently a couple of emails to this insufferable dbag means I want to send him pictures of kittens and memes all the time.
The one thing iOS does get right is being able to order my apps in the share dialog however I want and it always respects that. I fucking hate using my android phone because I'm 100% sure it's meant to torture you.
netsharc
I think the share menu uses concurrency to query available share targets (querying their names and icons), so whichever target responds first, gets put in the list first. Which is indeed very dumb, because the user gets a randomized list everytime s/he wants to share something.
I'm using Fliktu https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.oakstar.fl... to override the share menu, it works in most apps (some apps use an internal share menu), and you can also trigger it by shaking the phone after copying something into the clipboard. AFAIK it sorts the share targets by "last used".
efreak
Another option is Sharedr https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.rejh.share...
Personally, until something open source is available, I'll stick with NeoLinker on my unrooted (no firewall) phone. It uses the built-in share share menu, but has the advantage of being able to share to itself to rotate between share, open with, search for, etc. If you're interested, it's available on Fdroid (and probably the play store as well?)
hnick
I confess I switch to Android from iPhone as a single issue voter - I just wanted to put files on and off it without the OS getting in the way.
These days though I think iPhone is a little better at that, and Android gets in the way all the time ("Camera has crashed, please restart your phone" - somehow, restarting all apps that may have interacted with the camera works too Android, why don't you clean up after yourself so I don't miss nice photo opportunities).
robocat
“Camera has crashed” is very likely model/manufacturer dependant.
That said, having to evaluate different models to get something reliable is a pain (currently I would only buy either Pixel or Nokia).
hnick
Yeah I figured as much. Moto G5 Plus if anyone cares.
However, if it carries the Android brand I think it's fair to put some of the blame on Google. Atari learned that lesson in the early 1980s.
Marsymars
Yeah, I'm also a single-issue Android user (have used Dvorak for nearly 20 years now, no interest in using/learning the iOS QWERTY keyboard), and if anyone asks me, I'm hard-pressed to recommend an Android device over an iOS device.
freehunter
You can use Dvorak on iOS. One example (but not the only example): https://apps.apple.com/us/app/dvorak-colemak-keyboards/id940...
bosswipe
This is a bug in the app, I don't see how it is Android's fault.
dleslie
This is a Play Store curation failure _as well as_ a bug in the app.
This sort of fault shouldn't have been allowed to pass.
rhizome
tl;dr: what bug, or even what kind of bug?
"The app" does not provide the share intent panel functionality, the framework does, and even if there was some way in which an app could be thought to be to blame, with what permission would it be inserting its resources in a particular spot in the panel?
bosswipe
The app declared itself to be a web browser so the OS asked the user if they wanted to use this new browser.
Gene_Parmesan
Yeah, the top suggestion for me to share content with is my boss's boss, whom I've directly emailed about three times in the 1.5 years I've worked at this place.
RcouF1uZ4gsC
With all the sites with CPU intensive Javascript, my phone gets hot enough that sometimes I feel my browser wants to be my default BBQ.
asplake
I’m getting this on CNN: https://twitter.com/asplake/status/1263907373825081344?s=21
beervirus
What a crock of shit that grills are now IoT devices. The less of my life that’s accessible on the Internet, the better.
crazygringo
I saw from another thread that this is actually for the temperature of a meat thermometer, that you can constantly monitor and without having to open the grill (which is undesirable).
So actually not a crock of shit, and pretty useful if you're grilling/smoking over long periods of time before/during a big party or something. Not all grilling is quick searing.
Sometimes new features aren't just gimmicks, you know?
userbinator
What are the chances that it's also sending the temperature over the Internet to be logged by some server in the cloud, so they can gather usage metrics and other analytics? This is literally "telemetry" in the original engineering sense, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if it did.
On a lighter note, Weber does sound like a good name for a web browser.
jfindley
I get that privacy is important, but I'm struggling to understand why I'm supposed to care about a company logging data on the temperature of the beef I'm cooking. If they want to badly enough to secretly add telemetry code and not tell me? Great, have fun. Enjoy. I'll not lose any sleep over it.
In other words - the backlash over excessive data storage and retention is very much good thing, but let's be careful to try keep things in perspective a bit. Otherwise we run the risk of people not taking us seriously when it actually matters.
poulsbohemian
Everyone in this thread is debating lid vs meat vs "do we need this at all?" when the problem I have when I cook on a (gas) grill is that half the grill is cold and the other half is a raging inferno and I can't understand why. Seems to me like I need multiple thermometers to figure out why there is such uneven cooking. Ironically, I have a much easier time cooking on wood / charcoal.
chrisrogers
To address your problem, check the size of the flames on your gas lines first. Those do rust, and it may just help to give it a few knocks and clean the ports with a wire brush.
Some of your valves may be stuck, resulting in low output. Check all areas for rust, and clean it out if it's evident.
Gas grills are too often engineered for low cost builds. They rust easily, and require regular maintenance.
Good luck!
mcphage
Someone I know bought an inexpensive Bluetooth thermometer controller with support for 6 probes, so you may be able to find what you want.
metal13
I just bought some GrillGrates that supposedly help with that. Good reviews, but I haven't yet tried them out.
youngNed
a guage. On the bbq lid. No, i can't check it while i sit inside, this is true, there is, however a very good argument that says, maybe i shouldn't actually be inside while the bbq is on though.
zerocrates
There's a barbecue recipe guy I like, big proponent of leave-in thermometers (the kind with leads that snake outside the barbecue). He likes to say that the in-lid thermometers are just fine, provided you're planning to eat the lid.
I still probably wouldn't use an IoT one, though.
ohyeshedid
Remote temperature monitors are often used for low and slow smoking that lasts for 10+ hours. There are many smokeboxes designed to be used unattended, a great deal of them have pellet driven hopper systems to keep delivering fuel so there's consistent heat and smoke.
Personally, I wouldn't use an app for this and instead just use a remote sensor and dedicated monitor, but I don't fault anyone for using an app.
phil21
Others have pointed out that this is meat temp, not grill temp.
But even if it were grill temp the gauge on the BBQ lid is more of a guide than an actual temperature. They are highly inaccurate, more like "cold, warm, hot" than "400 degrees".
For most stuff just dialing in the temp comparatively is fine, so the grill gauge works. You know you want to grill your steak when the thing reads 600 degrees, and your chicken at 400. But those temps are certainly not remotely accurate.
For some other things (e.g. BBQ/smokers/etc.) getting exact temps correct is key. In those cases you'll require something much more accurate than the grill gauge even just to measure grill temp. Having something wireless is pretty handy in this case, so you can watch a movie in the basement and check on your meat temps without walking upstairs every 15 minutes.
KZeillmann
The temperature gauge on the lid is a terrible judge of what the actual air temperature is inside your grill. It's often low quality and not in a proper placement for your indirect heat. Depending on placement, it can be off by more than 100 degrees F
olyjohn
Not the grill temp... the meat temp.
UncleMeat
> No, i can't check it while i sit inside, this is true, there is, however a very good argument that says, maybe i shouldn't actually be inside while the bbq is on though.
This is an awesome feature for a smoker, which needs fairly consistent temperature for like 10-14hrs.
kortilla
You haven’t even scratched the surface of the bbq world if it’s not including a things that require an overnight cook (brisket).
ape4
Yes that's useful but it its too bad you need an entire app for the BBQ. If it could push that info on your your home's info bus along with the other IoT stuff then you would just need one app for all.
Tenobrus
Which you almost certainly can do with Home Assistant
undefined
dreamcompiler
I don't have one of these grills, but I'm willing to bet that you cannot monitor the grill temperature without a connection to the Internet. Because even though it's trivial to set up a wifi LAN-only connection, Internet-of-shit products never, ever work that way.
randomdude402
why does that need to get sent to Utah and back, though? Why not a good old radio signal to a nearby device that displays the temperature?
yyhhsj0521
It's easier to do it over the internet with all the HTTP-oriented infrastructure we have nowadays. If I were the developer and just want it done quickly and reliably, I'd do a central server thingy as well.
trashburger
Why does the thermometer require an embedded WebView? Couldn't they, you know, use a View?
_AzMoo
No, it's awesome. If you're slow cooking some meat for 9 hours you need a constant low temperature. It connects to the app on your phone and you can set thresholds to alert on. You can connect multiple probes, so you can monitor the temperature of the grill as well as the temperature of the meat, all without having to open the grill which compromises the temperature. Makes slow cooking (the best kind) infinitely easier.
chadcmulligan
My brother has one, sticks a roast in the weber, his iPhone goes ding when it's up to temperature while he's watching tv. It's a great thing.
lostlogin
Lan accessible devices can be amazing. Automatic on and off of various devices and removal of crap proprietary controllers and apps has made many things much better. Home Assistant running in Docker on a Synology 918 is easily the best tech I have every bought.
monadic2
> Automatic on and off of various devices and removal of crap proprietary controllers and apps has made many things much better
Off-hand I'd think for things like a grill I'd want this to be handled at the power strip level. Normally a grill, like a weber grill, is just a piece of metal and will last until you wear it out (even then it's mostly the flimsy legs that fail). If you add internet connectivity, the expected lifetime value of a product goes way down: failing hardware, services that get shut down, protocols that stop working as expected.
Meanwhile at the power strip level, you can both monitor and enforce energy usage, something that's beneficial even if you remove the ability to control it remotely (and why would you!?). I'd imagine for most things but maybe my computer and media setup I'd prefer to be able to simply cut the power to ensure it's not running.
EDIT: Apparently this is a meat thermometer!
detaro
This is a meat thermometer with Bluetooth. It neither breaks your grill if it ever stops being supported nor does it talk directly to the internet (although the app might of course. but Bluetooth typically can be reverse engineered)
swiley
The annoying thing is that I can’t ever seem to find power strips with individually addressable outlets.
Not even being picky and sticking with an open protocol like ptpp but any kind of internet controllable power strip. All I can find are single outlets at ~$25 a piece.
np_tedious
Wouldn't that be binary on/off instead of a temperature sliding deal?
Valid concern about more moving parts and expected lifetime
syntheticnature
And, as was in the reply tweets, it's not an IoT grill.
It's a thermometer app for a Bluetooth thermometer.
CivBase
It's actually not the grill - just a bluetooth thermometer that you can attach to the grill. I have one and it's very useful. I find it much more practical than other "smart" devices like thermostats, light bulbs, refrigerators, or even TVs.
annoyingnoob
For me part of grilling is being outside and probably not far form the grill. I try to manage temp and time so that I only need to use a thermometer as a double-check right at the end of cooking. I would never even think to use a remote read thermometer, let alone an IoT one.
notJim
I have a Weber grill that claims to be iGrill Ready™® and it's very optional, FWIW. I have no idea what it does and have never interacted with it, even though I'm just constantly grilling.
mattmaroon
Man I love my pellet grill WiFi. If I’m doing an overnight brisket I can check on it without leaving my bed. And if it gets done early it’ll notify me.
I upgraded specifically for that and I genuinely love it.
tetha
I'm utterly confused there as well. Decent grills I've owned consisted of three metal poles, a chain, a grill. Maybe a metal frame, a metal pan, a grill. Technically, I don't think I'd need much more than a bunch of sticks to grill something, besides fire material.
This is so nuts, there must be something missingThis might be a recipe app registering some bullshit capabilities or something.
aib
Okay, so an IoT BBQ is a useful thing.
How are we going to prevent every single useful thing from coming up with its own crappy, poorly-maintained application? Because obviously having open standards is not enough.
So far the solution we've come up with seems to be "wait until one or a few companies dominate the market, come up with their own solution, and hope it's an open one and/or others adopt it."
This particular app might not be crappy, but I think my question still stands.
jkcorrea
Is that necessarily something we want to prevent?
In the context of the early Web, should we have prevented any company from making their own website? Enforced some standard for how your website UX should work in the name of security and usability? Obviously not, as that diversity has led to more, better choices over time, and in the end the better UXs usually win out anyway.
Perhaps in a similar way, as Weber and other grill brands continue to sell into the IoT space, competition will drive them to differentiate in UX on their apps in addition to their hardware. Albeit at a slower pace given that their hook is their hardware unlike a digital product where the website is also usually the first impression.
ran3824692
> In the context of the early Web, should we have prevented any company from making their own website?
Well, websites are now a bundle of arbitrary remote code execution called javascript, we didn't allow that, so by today's standards, ya we did.
> Enforced some standard for how your website UX should work in the name of security and usability?
Well, html, so ya, again, ya we did. And we could again. A lot of the functionality of apps simply don't justify requiring you to run a program.
petee
Is there a meat thermometer open standard?
The only thing you can really do with an app-tied product: complain loud and publicly, and hope the company realized that nobody is buying a locked in product if the app has two stars.
0xDEEPFAC
Some good replies:
"Comes with a built in firewall"
"*Default Braiser?"
"Still better than Internet Explorer!"
dillutedfixer
It's the hottest new browser on the market.
I'm here all week.
dragosmocrii
It's important to not accept it as the default browser, otherwise you might get fried
coreyp_1
Don't forget:
"Does it support cookies?"
"Welcome to the World Wide Weber"
undefined
jameslk
Why does Weber have their own browser? Or is this one of those embedded browsers in an app? If the latter, why do they need an embedded browser in their app?
whalesalad
Have you ever used the kind of application that would be produced by a barbeque grill manufacturer? I am not surprised it has an embedded web browser and this type of misconfiguration in the bundle.
jameslk
No, I usually don't install apps for things like grills, refrigerators, trashcans or other domestic objects since I can't imagine they'd offer me anything obviously beneficial. I'm sure that's why I haven't enjoyed experiences like this.
notkaiho
This. Sure, we can question why these kinds of apps get bundled with "internet of things" devices, but it won't stop until we realise collectively we aren't in fact better off with things listening to every word, reacting to every move, recording everyone passing our house, etc.
Rebelgecko
I've never used a Bluetooth one, but wireless meat thermometers are super helpful IMO. They mostly use proprietary protocols, but a lot of the 433mhz ones have been reverse engineered
missedthecue
Probably something like a privacy policy or faq that opens the weber website in an embedded browser
iamdual
Probably, not well configured an AndroidManifest.xml is the problem.
Denvercoder9
It doesn't have its own browser, it's just a misconfigured app that makes Android think its a browser.
tibbon
I am truly curious what happens if you hit yes
K0balt
I'll give you a heads up when my react project goes live. I can't help but feel like it's going to be useful to you in that role.
pkaye
I think the iGrill lets you see the readings on the temperature probes. Probably broadcasts it to your phone in the vicinity.
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I used to visit the iGrill website every couple of days and stress test my product there during development.
I worked for Ai Squared on an app named Sitecues, which was a SaaS product that companies would add to their website to improve their accessibility for low vision users. We ran into a vast number of edge cases when trying to make our JavaScript library compatible with all of our customers' websites, many of whom had awful coding that we needed to handle gracefully (hacky CSS, old versions of Prototype JS that override Object.prototype, and far, far worse). One day I stumbled upon the iGrill website and found out that it exposed practically every problem that we had seen scattered across various other sites. It was so convenient that their website was so poorly coded that I could stress test our app on their site and if it worked, well, "ship it!"
Looks like their site has had a few updates since then, but those were good times.